Sweet Lincoln RIPPED from the bay

1/10 the price would be $3.00......I would buy a thousand of these at that price.

Yeah, I see your point bigtime. You see mine. Thats why we agree to disagree. Many times these coins take 2+ shows ( or a week online ) to sell, that to me is the " right buyer at the right time".....It is very rare for me to list a coin and sell it within a day or two.

Anybody notice on the " brother " coin auction linked here? I was the underbidder at $34 only because my wife was distracting me at the final minute or so, I would have went higher.

Not an offer to buy ( it is against the rules ) but anytime you have a color Lincoln or any copper for that matter, do yourself a favor, run it by Charmy or myself for offers, you might be happily suprised.:thumb: The strongest sellers are usually the strongest buyers

 

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Hey Baja, we are not "marketing" toned coins here - we are discussing their value. And, for the record, in this post especially, I'm going to "pretend" I am "talking to someone who's played with coins for the past few decades" so if you're in that category, feel free to continue reading if you like.

And Mike, the "head in the ground" comment was kind of harsh and was sort of a frustrated response to the seemingly endless discussions lately about values of particular coins, especially ones with extraordinary eye appeal. I simply don't understand how some people, especially those who have been doing this for many years, cannot see the added value of a coin that has exceptional eye appeal. Even a solid brown coin that is oozing luster with grayish or bluish tints (and I have many of these in my personal collection) will sell for a MUCH higher premium than a plain chocolate brown coin of the exact same grade. The ones who just want to pay whatever the "guide" says to pay for a particular year/grade are wearing blinders, IMHO.

I agree, of course each toned coin will have a different premium based on the brightness and rainbow-ness of the colors of that coin (and of course quality), and I agree Jack's coin isn't as colorful as the one I posted, but his still deserves a premium due to its colorful-ness and eye appeal, perhaps not as much as mine, but still more than an ordinary red one in that same grade.

And I understand that there are people who do not like toned coins, and that's absolutely perfectly fine. But I am hoping that those who don't like toned coins will at least be able to understand the added value an eye appealing colorful coin brings and not think those who pay those premiums are lacking sense or are foolish. That's the point I'm trying to make.

 

Charmy,
You awoke me i was sleeping tonight.

I have typed and erased 2 paragraphs tonight. If you dont get it, well you dont get it I guess. Not gonna matter to me.

In the mean time, I am however going to go to try and pay 8X silver melt for some of those semikey Barbers I need.


Thats it folks, after the first 6pak is gone, i retire. Wink Charmy, you know what I mean. Not worth it, I have hot sauce threads to catch up on.

 

Jack, I know I'm too wordy, but now I'm confused. I agree with you that your coin is worth more than a regular red coin, so what don't I get?????

 

Charmy, YOU get it but many dont. YOU get it.
That was not a comment directed to you, but the readers. Some readers dont get it.

 

Beautiful coins Charmy.... and I've paid premiums for nice toned coins several times, just not 10x... maybe 2x'ish. In particular, as has been stated already, this particular date is just soooo common in MS, that someone could by roll/s (plural),, ie, ~hundreds of MS examples, for the price paid for this one slabbed coin. Anyway, I do understand the toning market and am personnally attraced to it, but must resist,, must reeee-sist.. haha.

Here's some more,, get'em, slab'em, and make a boat load of $$$:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Lot-of-12-1956-P-Lincoln-Cents-GEM-BU-TONED_W0QQitemZ120446320567QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCoins_US_Individual?hash=item1c0b28ffb7&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50

or tone em' yourself and make a boat load:
http://cgi.ebay.com/1-Roll-of-50-BU....c0.m14&_trkparms=65:1|66:2|39:1|293:1|294:50

or see what a clean one goes for:
http://cgi.ebay.com/1956-ANA-CERTIF....c0.m14&_trkparms=65:1|66:2|39:1|293:1|294:50

or do it raw:
http://cgi.ebay.com/1956-D-Lincoln-....c0.m14&_trkparms=65:1|66:2|39:1|293:1|294:50

or buy in bulk
http://cgi.ebay.com/LOT-OF-10-1956-....c0.m14&_trkparms=65:1|66:2|39:1|293:2|294:50

They're everywhere !

 

Stability of color is for the most part non-existent as a characteristic. From the basal color of a coin, it is a natural incline of coloration due to chemical reactions such as sulfide layers. The progress up this hill to dark brown for copper can be slowed or suspended under the best of storage conditions, but it is capable of restarting in the presence of environmental factors whether it is in a slab, airtite, or sitting raw. Only in a tight vacuum or unbelievable luck of environment, would we expect to see no change in our lifetime. The incline slows as protective patina covers the metal, so change would be less in a RB coin than a RD coin under the same conditions over say 50+ years.
Even slabs need protection against the process.

Jim

 

Precisely. I've owned some toned copper for almost 30 years now without any significant change in color -- but for that time they have been stored in a very temperature- and humidity-constant area with little airflow.

 

Charmy,

Thanks for your response.

I am not -- at all -- debating premiums associated with high-eye-appeal/toned coins. I (like to think that I) collect them, and I pay premiums for them. That's not the issue.

My only issue is with the price point of this coin and the use of the term "rip". And frankly, I just think it's just a difference of opinion on this coin in particular. I maintain this coin is VERY common -- I'd go farther and say that the 1956 and 57 mint-set cents are the MOST COMMON TONERS of all copper, and the toning portrayed by this particular coin isn't particularly unusual and while it is attractive, it's not up there in terms of the mint set toners.

Now the last clause in the last sentence is admittedly a subjective assessment, and I can certainly understand how two people could value toners/eye-appeal differently. However, I maintain that the $30 price for this coin is pretty close to the market value -- but I also readily admit that you and AJ are likely much closer to the day-to-day retail market on these coins than I.

So the question becomes how does one place a value on a toned eye-appealing coin. Clearly there are no hard-and-fast rules or price guides that help with valuation. So we are left trying to make a subjective assessment of eye appeal and the associated premium to attach to a coin.

The way I try and solve that problem is by assessing factors:

1) How common the coin is found with toning.
2) The attractiveness of the toning.
3) The grade of the coin.
4) The price point of the coin.

Now the first three are fairly straightforward, however the last factor needs a bit of discussion. What I meant by that point is that cheap coins (say those that are priced from a few dollars to a hundred dollars or so) often have a very significant bump in price expressed in relative value to a untoned example. Using this year Lincoln as an example, it's a $5-30 coin. Yet toned they can fetch 3x-10x that price. But that premium, expressed in real dollars, is relatively small. Take a more expensive coin, say a toned proof IHC or MPL, a much more expensive coin, and this premium goes down from a relative price perspective (1.5x-3x in most cases). The point being that a more expensive toned coin is going to typically sell for less of a premium relative to the untoned example than a cheaper toned coin would.

At the end of the day, valuation of coins is a very personal and subjective decision. What's appealing to one is not appealing to another, and therefore what's a good price for one person is not necessarily a good price for another -- and the same thing can be said for all coins.

Bottom line: Coin valuation is one of the most difficult things to do with coins, and valuing toners is even more difficult. Great care must be taken to avoid overpaying for these coins given these challenges.

I hope you agree, but if not, that's fine too.

Take care...Mike

 

This will be a very interesting auction to watch....

I'd suggest that these coins are very similar to AJ's coin in terms of eye-appeal (if not grade) and if these coins are worth such a premium, this lot should go for much more than is currently being bid -- $1 to $2 a piece. Alternatively, if these coins go for cheap, then it should send a message that perhaps the premium in these coins isn't so much in the coin, but rather the slab -- and something that would call into question much of the "toning premium" as really a "slab premium". That's a warning sign to this numismatist that could potentially fly in the face of the valuation of the coin that is the subject of this thread.

Respectfully...Mike

 

I definitely agree with this, Mike, valuing toned coins, or even great eye appealing coins in general, is very personal and quite subjective, and is the most difficult part of coin collecting/selling. That pretty much is the bottom line of this discussion - thanks for putting it so succinctly.

 

Absolutely awesome thread.

I have never done a "CoinTalk is Great" post before, but I think I'll break the mold.

What's so cool?

People agreeing to disagree. People saying what they think even if it isn't "popular" - I love the sound bite that someone said - "happy talk". On some forums, people are left to believe they have a coin with "no" problems because no one wants to say anything, etc. etc. etc.

Other cool thing. We have dealers who are active participants who ADMIT and DECLARE that they are dealers. I'm on another board where I KNOW there are dealers who are hiding in sheep's clothing as "Joe the Collector".

Experts who are on CoinTalk who would be instantly inducted into the Coin Collecting Hall of Fame, if such a beast existed.

Mods that don't really police so much as try to convince virtual online friends to behave themselves. And Oh, I forgot - offer some of the most astute and to-the-point comments available anywhere.

We got a ton of new people on a daily basis even though we're in a crappy economic situation right now. I think that says a lot.

There I'm done and feel a lot better!

 

MAN, THIS THREAD HAS REALLY GONE BANANAS!! I love the above post!!
In closing, all I know is, even though I havent been collecting coins for decades, I am still a novice as a collector, and I don't sell pennies exclusively so I may not be up to snuff to discuss, Ill be damned I will pay a self imposed premium for a coin that has discoloured, or toned as those seem to prefer calling.
I love the look of toned coins but not enough that I will buy something for that may change down the road.
I have heard of people of accelerating toning through artifical means.

 

Perhaps his reference to "6 pack." I think it means he's close to being busted for CWT (Cointalking While Intoxicated). I think our BAC on that is .08, last I read our Rules. :goofer:

 

Metinks me agrees wit dis guy.

 

I won the lot of 12 Baja posted.

 

I got this one the mail today and I gotta say it looks better in person than in the pictures. The pictures are pretty accurate though. Arizona Jack you would have had this one too if you had bid again, I wasn't going any higher....guess it just works out that way sometimes.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...ategory=139805&_trkparms=algo=LVI&its=I&otn=2

 

Jack,

I bid on the coins you won and lost. However, I contacted the seller about the pictures. The description stated 12 coins and 14 were pictured. The seller stated the picture was correct. So you should be receiving 14 coins.

Tom

 

Congrats! Please post pics and/or your assessment when they arrive.

 

So you paid $30 and turned down $90. That was a 200% profit that you turned down. If you turned it down, you are more than likely thinking you can get more. 200% profit is a pretty sweet deal for getting ripped-off. That being said, I would like to get ripped off on a daily basis if I could make a 200% profit on my assets and investments.

I have paid a premium for toned IHC's and lincolns in the past, Its a fact they will sell for more especially if slabbed. Price of a toner, deal with it. They are definitely a thing of beauty.

P.S. Charmy that 57 Lincoln and 1909 are absolutely stunning. WOW.