Some good advice...

..I once received from a mentor of mine. It has proven to be very true over the years, and I thought I would pass it along while I'm thinking about it.

When faced with a valuation/purchasing decision on a slabbed coin, imagine the coin raw and what that would do to the price of a coin.

If the coin is worth as much or more, it is likely a good coin to buy.

If it is worth less, then chances are you're paying for plastic -- be careful.

Do you agree or disagree?

 

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Well I agree. Never really pictured them raw, but I do my best to grade em myself and determine a price.

 

I think, if it is a PCGS or NCG , you have to add some difference due to the replacement policy if the coin changes over time, confirmation of your or my grading , and ease of selling if the time comes, and it will for most of us without coin collector heirs. One doesn't have to go overboard, but it is insurance.

Jim

 

An opinion from a mostly "raw" guy (and it's been said here many times before) buy the coin, not the holder......

 

I'm slightly confused by the question if the Coin is Graded by NGC or PCGS I would think it's as accurate as your going to get from a TPG and pretty easily valued. If your refering to one of the many other TPG then yes I agree with you be more careful.

 

After I decide I like a coin or not, I decide how it will photograph, that is my #1 concern. Yep.

Im a webseller and any marks or distractions are amplified 5X in a huge pic. It has made me a better buyer. I have learned to read a raw coin and picture the image.

 

I certainly agree. I feel there is another caveat, however.

There is a difference between my buying patterns / thinking and the general market's buying patterns and thinking.

As a whole, the general public sees value in TPG slabbed coins vs raw coins. Thus, in many cases, it is easier to sell certain coins* slabbed vs raw.

Bottom line : a slab imparts no value to me when I am buying, but does when I am selling (i.e. when someone else is buying).

For that reason, I prefer to buy certain coins slabbed, thus saving trouble down the road. I won't pay extra. But many of those types are 99% slabbed anyway.



* i.e. pre-Barber era stuff in general, particularly silver and gold

 

Here's another caveat. Tell me what you think.

In the US series, the majority of valuable and/or early coins are slabbed* except the ones which are problem coins. The best ones are slabbed.

This leaves a large mass of raw coins which tend to be overgraded or problematic.

For instance, compare Capped Bust 25c - slabbed PCGS XF40 vs. raw offered as XF40. Same date / variety.

If you rounded up all of them, worldwide - all slabbed XF40 and all raw offered as XF40 - you would see a large difference.

The slabbed coins, on the whole, would be superior to the raw ones.

Why ? Because the grade opinion for a raw coin is offered by the seller. Raw coins, as a whole, have a bigger problem with overgrading than slabbed coins. They also have a worse problem with problems passing through as undetected by seller or buyer (for whatever reason).

I am talking about US coins only. The more valuable they are, or the older they are, the more the raw coins are picked over. In general, the good ones are in slabs.

I am aware there are exceptions. But exceptions don't prove the rule. Yes, TPGs strike out occassionally. But TPGs have a higher batting average than dealers and collectors as a whole.






* important exception - early copper

 

That would be fine for certain kinds of collectors, certain kinds of collections. Not so good for others, so in general, I don't find that advice particularly useful.

It presumes the person knows how to grade, which the average novice does not and will not for at least a year or more. It presumes the person knows pricing and availability for that date/mintmark, which the average novice does not know. Knowledge of pricing and availability may take years to learn, depending on the coin in question.

So in general, if a person already knows how to grade, and knows pricing and availability, he/she is more than half way home and doesn't need much advice. If the person can't grade, and doesn't know basic market pricing, the advice isn't worth much. Without those two foundations, any opinions on grade and value will be closer to throwing darts, than useful and thoughtful analysis.

 

Agree!

 

Easy to say, very hard to do.

 

Bad boy

"Well we used to have a saying in the construction industry - if it was easy, then we'd have girls doing it "

....JUST TO BE RUDE....in our lab we preferred the PC

"If it was easy, anyone could do it."

I've never been to a coin show in my life. My wife just consented that perhaps I should jump into the fray first person and go to one.

BUT~since were are here to talk about MONEY....I still accept the fact that there is a fun side and a work side to this "Hobby".

Tiger Woods (What does he do for FUN & recreation?)

Then there are the rest of us.:whistle:

 

These arguments about separating the slabs from the coins are somewhat circular. Two identical coins, one slabbed by PCGS or NGC and the other raw should intrinsically be worth the same to a collector who never has to sell. In fact, I would rather have it raw so I can look at it without the slab. Having said that, I don't buy raw coins because there is some guarantee in PCGS/NGC coins and they are going to be a lot easier to sell.

What I do agree is that people that just focus on the number on the slabs are missing out on a lot -- scrutinizing coins, deciding what you like and don't like in particular coins, buying coins because you like to look at them -- collecting. If you're not in it for that and just looking at the grade on the slab, you aren't really collecting, you're just accumulating.

 

If a person can't grade, and they don't know anything about pricing and availability - then they should not be buying coins. They should be studying.
>>

Easy to say, very hard to do.

>>

A novice will usually enjoy the hobby more and learn faster, by buying some coins, than by studying books or online images. Enjoying the hobby is #1. If the hobby isn't fun, there is zero reason to be in it. If a person wants to study, that is fine, but it is nowhere near the top of the list.

A person has to start some where and for most that means zero grading skill, and zero knowledge of pricing. I would agree that it is best to learn at least the basics of grading and pricing before buying any expensive coins. Expensive will have a different definition for each collector.

Each person will have a different learning curve in terms of learning to grade, and learning market pricing. In my case, I'll never be an expert grader. I am far sighted, and my mind likes to waffle, that means that I have less talent to work with than someone that is near sighted or has perfect vision, and a mind that makes snap decisions easily. I do have an excellent mind for prices and numbers. So for me the pricing part comes easier than learning to grade. For others, it will be the opposite.

Another cornerstone for collectors is to develop contacts and relationships to get better access to better coins at better prices.

Here is my fab five:
* Collect what you like, not what someone else likes
* Enjoy the hobby
* Learn how to grade
* For expensive coins, learn the market prices before buying
* Develop contacts with dealers and other collectors

A person might argue that learning to grade is studying. Well, it is, and it isn't. A person learns to grade by looking at coins, lots of them. A grading guide, and/or mentors will speed the process, but it remains a process. Studying images, or photos is of limited use and brings diminishing returns rather quickly. Studying a dealer's coins without buying any of them is a boring option and will not make any friends in the dealer community (see #5).

 

Right-o ! That, in a way, is the point.

My concern is the large number of folks who proudly proclaim they got a raw coin at a fraction the cost of the "same" coin slabbed. They, too, are comparing apples to oranges... but they don't know it. They think they got a "bargain", but often are in for a surprise.

From what I have seen of the coins actually available on the bourse floor, the US series is very well "picked over". As a group, the raw coins are dreck - especially older type.

I am evaluating the full body of raw vs. the full body of slabbed. Yes, they are very different. The slabbed coins, as a whole, are superior. Apples vs. oranges indeed !

 

A fair comparison if, and only if, I also pick the cream of the slabbed crop as well ! Is it fair to cherrypick the very best raw coins and compare them to the average slabbed coins ?