I was collecting coins bigtime in the early '90s. Bought a lot from dealers in one of the national coin magazines. Many of the coins I bought came in flips. And I bought a package of flips for other coins in my collection. Come to find out many years later that the flips are putting a green tint on my coins, most around the rim but some on the faces. So I've been spending a few hours each day lately doing the acetone and new holders thing. Makes one wonder if these national coin dealers in the early '90s knew that what they were using and selling were harmful. I don't remember any advice given with the coins, like after inspection transfer the coins into non-reactive holders, although I found some with interesting packaging: a paper envelope within the flip. Has anyone seen coin dealers do this? If I had known at the time I could have transferred the coin into the holder until I got proper holders rather than leave it in the PVC flip. So I'm gradually working my way through my half-dollar three-ring binder. I get to some 1964 Kennedys. They look like they have a green tint like the Franklins I've been doing. But the Kennedys aren't in the usual flips, they are sealed so the coins cannot be removed. So I cut it open and drop the coin in the acetone bowl. Couple minutes later I try to move it and the coin is stuck to the bowl. Come to find out in addition to being in a flip the coins are encased, like in a PVC or silicone sleeve. Looks so nice that it could be chromed plastic, but this is how it came out of the acetone bath. Weighs 12 g on my non-decimal scale. This next one is out of the flip but not yet bathed in acetone. I bought these in the early '90s so I suspect these are not Airtite brand containers or similar that are in use today. Has anyone else had coins encased in soft plastic like this? Did you keep them intact or re-holder them? Thanks, Jim
They were called CoinTain by some and Kointain by others. They claimed they were mylar, but I never had a chance to test them. In the 60-70s , I purchased some that had them on the coin. The devil to easily remove them. The earliest were celluloid, but those were replaced. AIRI ( As I Remember It), Jim
I don’t think they knew it was harmful back then. I mean how would they benefit? I think they were just unaware or at worst they didn’t bother to check due to ignorance.
I had the same experience. Started collecting in the 1980's and really liked the softer flips. Luckily I couldn't afford any big ticket coins back then. Now I'm going thru my early coins, dipping in acetone and putting them in cardboard 2x2's or archival grade flips. I also used some of the cointain holders for a short while back then. I don't have any now so I can't speak on how they have aged but I remember that I enjoyed being able to finger my coins after they were capsulated.
The PVC contamination is a nasty bugger. there's no easy way to correct it without putting the work in and going over everything and treating one coin at a time, eradicating the PVC from the collection and on the coins. Just saying you'd want to be thorough, in confined spaces the plasticizer vapors can travel and settle on other flips and coins and even thought you treated and thought you got it all a few years later find some more green appearing on coins that looked OK on the first round. No idea how big of a problem you have with it, mine was minor as I mostly coin roll hunted and had very few coins bought from dealers as gifts for me so my PVC flip problem was just a handful and I got rid of It when it began to appear on the first of them and changed everything to modern 2x2s. My LCS will still send me home with silver eagles in PVC type soft flips last time I bought from there before the pandemic. I keep a couple non-PVC flips in the car just in case I come across something I want to protect until I get home then transfer to 2x2s... but nope. No PVC flips making it into the house anymore that's for sure. I think in general the dealers assume it's temporary and you'll be storing it differently so they don't care, like if it was a box or bag, just something to get it home in to them. I also think we all learn this the hard way and don't give it much thought starting out and assume the dealer puts stuff in inert packaging for longevity. Not so in a whole lot of cases. Heck I'm sure if I went in there now he'd have some Gold Eagles in his display cases in slightly yellowed PVC flips that have been sitting there like that since the 1990s or earlier.
Yeh, in the 90's the soft flips probably had not been identified as a problem. I don't know even if the PVC problem was widely known. Turns out that maybe 2x2's were better; they generally didn't use the plastic softener. BUT Even then I think it was accepted that flips and 2x2's were not good for long term storage (>10 years). Nowadays there are AirTites and non-PVC flips. And slabs are good for long term storage. But I don't think any are acceptable for permanent storage. You just have to take a look every so often.
Folks knew about the PVC problem in the 90's but were not sure about all the different brands of flips. Bowers sealed coins in PVC holders for auctions in the 90's. They came with a note that said that the holder should be changed. Many did not change the holders and ended up with damaged coins. Don't ask me how I know.
Some dealers know they're harmful today, but still use them because they're cheaper. They rationalize it by saying they aren't using them for long term storage, so it isn't that bad.
From what I know the 2x2s window is mylar (polyproplene) I'm not sure if it was always this way or not even on the early one's but I'm not aware of people with 2x2 issues except for rusty staples... lol. Don't ask me how I know. But as long as you keep your eye on your coins regularly, rusty staples are a non issue it's the people that don't look for 20 years and find the staples rusted, the 2x2 and the coin stained up ... and you could use stainless steel or coated staples to avoid it happening as an alternative. Yeah... come to think of it I've never heard of a collector with a PVC issue from a 2x2 holder.
I had several (100's) of coins that were in flips with staples and I looked at them and the rust had transferred to one of my coins a Beautiful 1948 Franklin and it ruined it. I have since replaced my ENTIRE coin collection that was in flips with one of the SELF SEALING flips and so far no problems. I did use one of the flips I ordered from Amazon and the flips would not stay completely sealed and I have since used the one I ordered from Amos Advantage and they work perfect. They are more expensive than the "staple" flips but my coins are worth it. Stay Safe Phil
Just a couple observations to add I first heard about PVC residue damage in the mid 80s, and suspect it was publicized before that. I was able to get trichlorotrifluoroethane (freon 113) from the college chem lab to remove the reside. That stuff worked great but was banned for destroying the Ozone Many dealers use soft PVC holders because they're flexible. The safe flips will crack and break if they're opened and closed too many times. Think about how many times a flip can be opened at shows as collectors look at the reverse. That's why every coin I purchase gets a quick acetone dip The window in cardboard 2x2s is mylar and have been that way for as long as I can remember. I have coins that I put in 2x2s 45+ years ago when I was a kid that show no damage. Rusty staples are a concern if you live in a humid area or store your coins in a damp basement
So I remember Clearly getting Bowers & Ruddy Coin catalogs in the early 1970's, and they always said quite upfront that coins were shipped in these soft plastic 2x2 flips that were NOT suitable to long term storage and would cause long term PVC damage, and that everybody should remove them from these soft holders and put them into something inert. So YES! dealers knew of this issue, probably as far back as the very beginning of the use of these soft plastic 2x2s! I suppose it is something that needs constant repetition as new collectors come along all the time.
i had over 100 catalogs at one point, i loved looking at the pictures of coins i can never afford, lol and i sold a few coins to them as well, a couple of slq with full head gem bu +_++ back then, todays grade?/ ms-67 maybe, got 95.00 each for two of em, 1916 ty 1, lol thought i made a great profit, got them for 2.00 a piece from a local women at a tag sale, they were black as night, i dipped em quickly in tarnex..ran hot water over em for a minute, let em air dry, walla perfect gem bu...they do not make tarnex anymore, it was great, never harmed a coin...and turned many unc to gems in my day,,,i think i was 14 at the tiem...miss those catalogs nw..sold them a long time ago, i bet they are worth a fortune today...???
In the early 1970's, the ANA graded coins and placed them in PVC flips and heat sealed them. On one side was the coin and on the other side was a small certificate. Both sides were heat sealed. As I have posted in other threads, I took the coin ( Proof 1937 Australian Crown) from the bank and immediately removed it from the PVC flip. It had PVC oil on the coin. I followed instructions to place the coin gently in a beaker and pour acetone on it and then gently swish the acetone around without moving the coin. I then removed the coin from the acetone and let it air dry. I was instructed to do this 5 times which I did. Under a microscope, I could see where the PVC oil had microscopically discolored and etched the sterling silver. So if you have any older ANA graded coins, remove them from the PVC flip to prevent any further damage. This coin now resides in a SEGS holder to be preserved without further PVC damage.
OK, folks...good info and learning, if the hard way back then for many of us. That said and moving forward, what is the best way, or holder(s)...proven, tried and true, etc...for coins that DO work for long-term/permanent storage...? Exclude TPG slabs or similar facsimiles...more the kind that most avg-Jack/Jill collectors can readily procure and afford. What about those round Whitman capsules (have seen other brands) that have the black ring...? I've had some of mine in those for a few years, now, and no problems that I've detected...not even album-like edges/rims (toned) from the rings.
For the last 30+ years, any of my coins that I treasure get the following. Correct size Kointane, then into a 2.5x2.5 vinyl flip. Coin in Kointane in one flip pocket, all of the information about the coin on a paper insert in the other pocket. NOT ONE incident in all those years. Total collection over 2500+ coins. This includes all metals with a minimum value of $25.
Back in the 90's it was realized that PVC will damage coins in the wrong environment. I think it may have been realized in the 80's. They were used at auction houses because they were soft and less chance of causing damage. However, they would include a warning not to store the coins for long term in them. PVC flips are still being sold today so be careful what you buy. I prefer either Capital plastic holders or any of the hard plastic holders. The old cardboard 2 x 2's are still good for cheap coins just be careful to flatten the staples.
the people selling the flips probably knew it would be 30 or more years down the road when anybody would see any problems and decided not to put a warning on the box.
I use 2x2 cardboard flips, clean the plastic with a cloth p, and make sure the staples don’t dink them. It has worked for me and I store them in a dry closet
