My PCI toned Morgan that didn't cross

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Where’s the coin

 

^^click on the great collections link

 

Here is a similarly toned Morgan to the OP’s coin, certified by PCGS, and sold by a known Florida coin doctor. Toning coloration pattern is identical, and completely atypical of any toned Morgan I have ever seen.

 

Morgandude11, posted: "Here is a similarly [ON WHAT PLANET??] toned Morgan to the OP’s coin, certified by PCGS, and sold by a known Florida coin doctor. Toning coloration pattern is identical, and completely atypical of any toned Morgan I have ever seen.

View attachment 1251356 View attachment 1251357 [/QUOTE]

I know you are a Silver Dollar expert but I should think the graders at PCGS have seen just as many toned dollars as you have. Besides, I thought PCGS does not slab AT coins.

ANNAH! Anyone else besides me who thinks the toning pattern on the other coin looks ABSOLUTELY NOTHING like this?

 

if i may, which other coin?

there is more than one displayed.

i can't decide which planet until i know which coin universe.

it may or may not be true concerning how many toned dollars any particular grader or group of graders have seen as many. it is also a matter of when it was graded, because it is a known fact that there were time periods when questionable coins were encapsulated without any commentary.

there was a voluntary exercise some years ago, when pro graders were invited to take part in a toning grading symposium of sorts. it didn't go well. the collective agreements on, as i recall, 100 pieces, was less than 18%. it is not an easy task, unless the comparison board and it views and cliff notes are in front of you.

as i suspect you know, there is not much time to decide, before passing hands to the next person, and infallibility is not at all outcome with toned coins although it is the goal. a good goal, but never the less humans are involved.

 

^agreed, that toning pattern looks nothing like the PCI toners

a hallmark (excuse the pun) of the green era PCI holders is that they tone in a target/ringed fashion, starting at the rims which are reacting to something in the holder

the toning is instantly recognizable, and is generally quite uniform

 

i tried to cross this coin at Great Collections:





and it came back as:




the link for the auction is in the FIRST post of this thread

 

thank you. that is helpful.

i would certainly want to see the coin in hand, because photos can be very misleading.

if i am forced to decide based only on an oversized photo, the coin is suspect, to me, because of the chartreuse and seafoam progression.

 

I remain perplexed what the fuss is about artificial toning. Whether artificial or natural the effect of toning on the coin seems to be the same. I guess I must be missing something about any damage to the coin, but if I am correct then why the fuss. Some of these toned coins, if you like toned coins, are absolutely visually stunning.

 

Southpawdon, posted: "I remain perplexed what the fuss is about artificial toning. Whether artificial or natural the effect of toning on the coin seems to be the same. I guess I must be missing something about any damage to the coin, but if I am correct then why the fuss. Some of these toned coins, if you like toned coins, are absolutely visually stunning."

Well put. Purists will tell you that any toning on a coin is a form of surface damage. Nevertheless, some toned coins are beautiful causing a price increase followed by folks who try to improve the appearance (or hide defects) on coins by speeding up the oxidation. The more toned coins you've seen, the better you are able to decide NT or AT. Unfortunately, most of the older folks who were around in the 50's to 70's when many toned original coins came out of bags or were dipped to make them white have not had the experience of seeing naturally toned coins before the coin doctors got involved.

Thankfully, the TPGS's are here to help and even the exceptional AT coins are eventually detected!
My personal solution based on what I have seen in the 60's & 70's is to call it NT if it looks NT. Additionally, no one can ever be perfect because based on what I've seen on 100% naturally toned silver rounds in buckets covered with cobwebs stored in a gas heated building - ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE.

 

Very well stated. When it comes down to it, TPGs do a skillful job of filtering out AT coins, by increasingly skilled coin doctors. However, there will always be debates of NT, versus AT. It has gone on for decades, and will continue to do so. The standard of “market acceptability” will always be the standard for toned coins.

 

Morgandude11, posted: "...When it comes down to it, TPGs do a skillful job of filtering out AT coins, by increasingly skilled coin doctors. However, there will always be debates of NT, versus AT. It has gone on for decades, and will continue to do so. The standard of “market acceptability” will always be the standard for toned coins."

Agree, and just as the strict interpretation of MS from the past has been watered down by "market acceptability" as the old timers died off and lost their importance with the establishment of TPGS's; so will the determination of NT as the old timers die off and "market acceptable" AT examples become more deceptive.

Evolving "standards" has been a sad thing to watch as the "wolves" herd the sheep .

Full Disclosure: I'm forced to "market grade" crap (market acceptable) coins daily that I would not recommend my worse enemy buy! I guess that makes me part of the problem.

 

Insider said “Full Disclosure: I'm forced to "market grade" crap (market acceptable) coins daily that I would not recommend my worse enemy buy! I guess that makes me part of the problem.”

This is crucial for newer collectors to the hobby to understand. The market for “MS quality coins” has gotten larger, by overall sales and marketing. Standards have changed. When one buys a coin, they should be well aware that the MS 65 they buy today could easily have been a 62, or 63, twenty years ago. Caveat Emptor should be the standard for expectations of “accurate grading.” This is a fact of market-driven conditions that have changed.

 

nm

 

so true, esp the bolded text when buying Morgans

 

This is crucial for newer collectors to the hobby to understand. The market for “MS quality coins” has gotten larger, by overall sales and marketing. Standards have changed. When one buys a coin, they should be well aware that the MS 65 they buy today could easily have been a 62, or 63, twenty years ago.

More than plenty were considered AU also.

 

Pickin and Grinin, posted: "This is crucial for newer collectors to the hobby to understand. The market for “MS quality coins” has gotten larger, by overall sales and marketing. Standards have changed. When one buys a coin, they should be well aware that the MS 65 they buy today could easily have been a 62, or 63, twenty years ago."

I think you got it backwards.

"More than plenty were considered AU also."

This is VERY true.

 

@mike79 how was the final result compared to your expectations?
$177 (plus buyer's fee to take it to $199.12) seems fairly strong given the details holder.

 

I'm very happy

I think a crackout/resubmit is in her future...