Cleaning Coins, whats the big deal?

could someone explain to me why cleaning coins devalues them, and why some people get SO anal about even rinsing dirt off

the only reasons i can even think of are
1. discourage people from inadvertantly ruining the wheat pennies that they are going to most definetly think are worth thousands anyway..... but with all that coin knowledge spilling out, they wont know untill its too late that "cleaning devalues a coin".

2. identity of dies/authenticity- this seems to be thrown out the window when you consider most(old) coins are worn, and even still after seeing the PCGS authenticity check ( i hope to god that they check more than that) i can see why fakes can slip into slabs.

3. just plain greed- saying oooh my coin which was passed through the hands of 48 hookers, a coke dealer, ran through the mud, and many other mysteries that are the life of a coin looks better than yours! oh wait.... yours does look better? well..... mines still better cause .....well.. i didnt clean it! ya thats it.... so mines worth 14 times what yours is !

seriously though, all sarcasm aside, whats the deal. please EXPLAIN this.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

cleaning is an act of deception in the coin industry. It is a way to hide the history of a coin and as such coin cleaning (and those who sell cleaned coins) must be made to pay a steep penalty for their attempted deception. When someone cleans a coin they destroy the history that it acquired on its trip through the hands of those 48 hookers and a coke dealer Now, that is how I feel about the issue (and for the most part numismatists in general agree with me), but if you don't mind cleaned coins, then by all means clean yours! For a short while (as far as the coin is concerned) you are the coins' custodian and you have every right to treat or mis-treat your coins any way you want. Just don't expect someone to pay full price (the price assigned to a similarly graded original coin) for your cleaned coins when you are ready to pass them to their next custodian.

 

Here's an analogy.

You have an archaeological artefact. Lets say it's an Egyptian statue carved on the top of a column.

Where does it look better; in a museum, or left in a tomb in Egypt where it's still in it's context? Cleaning a coin simply destroys it much the same way that prising the statue from it's column to ship it to London for the museum would be considered vandalism.

In the 19th century and even up until present much of Egypt's archaeology and past has been vandalised, ripped open, demolished and reconstructed in museums because it looks good in a collection. The truth is though is this really making it look better and preserving it for other generations? Same with coins is cleaning them really helping to save history?

 

Other than cleaning up a few circulated lincoln cents when I was a kid [I used a pencil eraser and was pleased with the result] I have never cleaned a coin and never will. I completely agree with the comments about originality, damage, etc... However, I also believe that cleaned coins are overdiscounted at times. I'd prefer to see all of the third party grading companies grade cleaned coins and note the fact on the slab so that more collectors will know what they are buying. I don't really see where cleaning is more damaging to a coin than normal circulation wear, so perhaps a cleaned AU coin is [or should be] equal in value to an EF or VF depending on how much surface damage was caused by the cleaning. And the coin should be priced accordingly with no more stigma than a coin with additional circulation wear. Cleaning is just another form of wear to me. I've only intentionally purchased a couple of cleaned morgan dollars because they were selling close to the silver bullion value, probably because of the cleaning, but were otherwise in fairly decent condition. I think if I passed up the chance to buy an otherwise VF morgan for $5 because it was cleaned I'd get stomach cramps and not be able to sleep; but that's just me.

 

If the truth of the matter were known, all third party graders (without exception) have graded and encapsolated "cleaned" coins without noting this fact on their holders.

 

Old Dan,

Next you'll be telling me that the tooth fairy leaves cleaned coins behind and doesn't disclose the fact.

 

i dont mean drastic cleaning, removing toning etc. what im talking about is just removing some dirt, like that guy that found the 1921 dime with a metal detector and a few people said he devalued it by rinsing it off. thats just plain rediculous. i dont mean taking a wire brush to a coin either or even an acidic dip solution. i just mean removing excess debree on the surface of a coin. at worst using some baking soda, hot water, and aluminum foil ( which i use for my "junk silver")

i have only cleaned 2 of the coins in my actual collection ( baking soda) and i didnt scratch them up. the toning is intact and the only scratches were already there. the others i wont touch because i dont want to "damage" them.


i guess what im getting at is that theres a difference between cleaning like rinsing with soap and warm water, and using sandpaper...... or is there?

the "history" that some of you refer too...is it really in the dirt? i dont think so since you will never be able to identify where any of it came from ( unless of course it came off a sunken ship for example, then i can see it). otherwise, to me at least its the coin itself that will always be the historical piece.

i beleive that the grading companies drop cleaned coins 1 full grade, which is part of my beef with no grade of 30. anacs lists this drop.

 

He did lower the value...but he also raised the value from when he found it...it had dirt all over it...that was worthless...he cleaned it...made it worth a little but not as much if it had been a coin that had never been cleaned and didn't have any dirt on it...now I don't think its "rediculous" at all and as for the coins you cleaned...next time your going to be seeing a good coin dealer take them with you and see what he says--I bet it will lower the valuer 50% at the most....

The best thing I can say is....never ever clean a coin...unless it had PVC or is covered in dirt--and then you are still lowering the value when you are raising the value.

Speedy

 

BTW....why do you say "most grading companies"...I only know of 3 that will grade problem coins...NCC (I think thats right...they are with NGC) ANACS and PCI...now before anybody jumps on me...every grading co. has graded cleaned coins and has not marked them on the slab but most of the time they come back in body-bags.

Speedy

 

Baking soda definitely changes a coin's surfaces.

Yes, there are ways to remove ground soil (real dirt; the stuff plants grow in) from a coin -- but baking soda is not it.

"Kitchen conservation" ruins coins... and paper money... and medals... and stock certificates... and tokens ... and books ...

One of the problems with numismatics is greed. Greed is both a positive and negative reinforcement. Getting the right item at the right price is the positive side. Being "penny wise and pound foolish" is the negative side. If a coin is worth conservation, then it is worth paying a professional to do it right. If it is not worth the money for professional conservation, then amateur conservation is not the answer. Just leave it alone.

 

Lol. I have a few pencil eraser cleaned coins myself.

Before I start to clean anything, ask yourself if the cleaned coin is better off than it is uncleaned. Will someone or I enjoy a mercury dime with a peace of 40year old bubble gum covering half the surface? Other than that, cleaned coins is bad. A 150year old silver coin is supposed to be turned.

Just so you know I’m not above collecting cleaned coins. I just wont buy one as an investment.

 

Most simply stated, all forms of cleaning damage coins.

How so? No matter how delicate, cleaning involves the removal of some portion of the coin. This removal is change from the coins original state. Less "original" has always ment less valuable when ANYTHING is collected. Pick a topic from cars to comic books and the same is true.

Eye appeal is a different matter.

I guess when you think about it, there are 2 extremes to collecting. At one end you have those that collect coins for what they ARE NOT, and at the other end, you have those that collect coins for what they ARE.

The "are not"s want things that are as close to the day they were created as is possible. The "are"s want things that have eye appeal and/or history.

Neither is wrong, and we all are a mix of both. Its just that the further appart people fall in the spectrum, the less likely they are to agree.

Personally, I don't have the cash to go for the "most original" coins. I'm at a point that I'll be satisified just to finish a type set first. As my financial status changes, then maybe I'll revisit my collections and cycle out any cleaned coins. Until then, I'm with you on the $5 Morgans.

Bottom line (sagely repeated by many). Collect what you like, period.

If your looking to invest, then you will have to accept the forces steering the market, and that means cleaning is bad.

 

i dont own any investment coins atm, just run of the mill greatly detailed ones. if i were buying investment coins, i would buy pcgs or NGC slabbed coins and i definetly would NOT bust them open to clean them.

im asking ( sarcasm aside, i love sarcasm) for insight, not to be a jackass .

 

Pretty well everybody's gonna say that cleaning is bad. Granted, it's way overstated, and many people freak out if you tell them their coin's been cleaned, or if they suddenly realize that it devalues their coins. But, at least to me, if I can find a coin with the original mint luster, it's a lot prettier and it looks nicer in my albums than a coin that has no luster due to cleaning. Now, I know you'll argue with me over Lincoln cents because the luster goes away with circulation, and if you clean an old Lincoln cent, normally it looks better. However, I am of the opinion that imagination is half the fun, and if I can imagine all the places that 1909-VDB I found last night went in the last CENTURY IN CIRCULATION then to be perfectly honest, I'd rather have the brown one over the copper-coloured cleaned one.

Now, when it comes to silver, I haven't branched out too much into it yet because it escapes my means a little bit at present, but I will always take the lustrous coin over the cleaned and non- or not-so-lustrous coins. I also won't buy cleaned coins if they don't look really appealing, and I haven't found many that I could tell were abrasively cleaned that still looked good. Dip cleaning is another story, and I'm not so familiar with it yet, so I'll hold off judgement for a bit.

Either way, non-cleaned coins just look better to me than cleaned coins, and I'd actually rather have great-looking circulated coins than proof, mint state, never circulated coins because I think they look better in my collection.

This post probably didn't help one bit in bringing you closer to an answer, but I think the previous post sums it up: if you are collecting to collect, get whatever you think looks good, be it cleaned, uncleaned, MS, or proof; but if you are collecting for investment purposes, uncleaned is the only way to go.

~AJ

 

NGC started a "cleaning" service. http://www.ncscoin.com/ These guys will dip your coin and forward to NGC for re-grade.

Here is their rationale.

http://www.ncscoin.com/conservation/index.asp

 

It is a conservation service. That is why I said: "If a coin is worth conservation, then it is worth paying a professional to do it right."

 

Yep, the NCS marketing guys did well in their choice of vernacular. I am guessing though, their business will be less similar to preserving artwork as the say and more about dipping coins with unattractive toning in the hopes of a higher grade.