Another CWT ID needed.

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by Treashunt, Jun 29, 2009.

  1. Treashunt

    Treashunt The Other Frank

    Please help.
    As always:
    Token ID.
    Grade
    Rarity
    Any comments about the piece.

    And of course: Value:

    obv:
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  3. HandsomeToad

    HandsomeToad Urinist

    I'd say XF-40/45 :thumb: but I can't help on ID'n it. ;)

    Nice! :hammer:

    Ribbit :)
     
  4. green18

    green18 Unknown member Sweet on Commemorative Coins

  5. HandsomeToad

    HandsomeToad Urinist

  6. Treashunt

    Treashunt The Other Frank

    Green:
    Thanks, but the obverse is the same, while the reverse is different.
     
  7. green18

    green18 Unknown member Sweet on Commemorative Coins

  8. HandsomeToad

    HandsomeToad Urinist

  9. Treashunt

    Treashunt The Other Frank

    Thanks, Green.
    Any idea of Rarity, anyone?
     
  10. Jim M

    Jim M Ride it like ya stole it

    Frank, PM Larry he is DA MASTA on these things. He will have your answer.


    Larry wan kanobee.
     
  11. 900fine

    900fine doggone it people like me

    ID is : CWT 890B-1b. Rarity 1. Struck in brass with a plain edge.

    Values are : VG $7; VF $12; EF $14; UNC $25

    Next !
     
  12. eddiespin

    eddiespin Fast Eddie

    As long as you asked...
    :)
     

    Attached Files:

  13. Treashunt

    Treashunt The Other Frank

    Thanks all
    More tomorrow.
     
  14. coinman0456

    coinman0456 Coin Collector

    Lol

    we need to start charging Treasure for research and appraisal services.:hug:
     
  15. cwtokenman

    cwtokenman Coin Hoarder

    I agree with 900fine's id with the addition of the state initials NY890B-1b, but I suspect he hit it by a stroke of luck. From the pricing info, I believe he used Rulau's Standard Catalog of United States Tokens to make his id. Rulau only lists the single most common variety of token for each Civil War merchant. Oliver Boutwell tokens were made using 20 different obverse dies and 23 different reverse dies, and many of those had multiple pairings. It just so happened that Frank's token was produced by the same die pair as the only one listed in Rulau's Catalog. It was made with obverse die O-1 and reverse die R-1. Kanzinger lists values in his 2002 ref. as $12 in F/VF, $15 in XF and $20 in Unc.

    All of the obverse and all but two of the reverse dies for this merchant are nearly identicle. For instance, the first token green18 linked to was made with obverse die O-5. This die is easily distinguished as only dies O-5 and O-6 do not have stars by "TROY NY". The reverse die is R-21, one of the two that are very different from the others.

    The second token linked to was made with obverse die O-3 and reverse die R-4. While neither die usage matched that of the token in the OP, there was agreement on it being the same token. The is a good demonstration as to why the close similarity and number of dies used make this merchant's tokens make them (IMO) the most commonly mis-identified of all cwts. The tpgs do not do a good job of identification either, but then, I still don't think they've taken the time to read the book.

    BTW, it looks like there is some die crack action going on by the merchant's name on the obverse. Nearly all of the examples that I have seen of obverse die O-1 have a die chip that connects the scrollwork to the "R" in MILLER, but since yours does not, it must be a relatively early die state.
     
  16. cwtokenman

    cwtokenman Coin Hoarder

    Hi Fast Eddie,

    Yours was a little tough to id because most of the distinguishing features I was looking for are gone. It took a little bit, but the id of your token is 299/350a, an R-2 rarity token (2001-5000 known). Kanzinger lists a value of $15 in F/VF. Charles D. Horter of 178 William Street, New York City, NY is ascribed to being the diesinker for both of those dies.
     
  17. eddiespin

    eddiespin Fast Eddie

    That's great CW. It belongs to one of the kids I've been slowly giving away my collection to. This is good id information to pass on to him. You even have the ascribed "diesinker" id'ed for him. This is really incredible. Thank you very much!
     
  18. cwtokenman

    cwtokenman Coin Hoarder

    Your very welcome Eddie. It sounds like some kids are very lucky to know you, in more ways than one.
     
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