Coin Grading/Authentication Services

I'm glad you passed, Michael. I was really worried there for a while. And with high honors! Mom must be proud.

I

It's fine that this is what the ANA and J.P. Martin says. But this isn't what happens in the real world. I'm not saying it's right. But you really need to look at more coins. Plenty of technical 58s wind up as 63s because of the particular coin's superior eye appeal -- luster, toning, and so on. I'm talking wear here, not rub, not strike. I'm talking about sliders. It's all part of the game. If you submit a slider to a grading service enough times, you get back what you want, sometimes, according to dealers I've talked with.[/quote]

 

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Contradictions do not exist.

Reid Goldsborough:
"I'm glad you passed, Michael. I was really worried there for a while. And with high honors! Mom must be proud."

My mother is dead. Leave her out of this unless you want to meet some of my cousins from the East Coast.

I cited my source of expertise. Your denigration of it -- which you will next call "humor" -- is yet another example of what you also call "girlish hairpulling" in a discussion.

I am an ANA-certified expert grader. I have said on RCC that my lack of practice on a daily basis is something I am aware of. Nonetheless, I understand the theory. I know that you contradict yourself. In your "Periodic Post" you do, indeed, give the correct explanation of what "market grading is." Your re-definition here is wrong.

Furthermore, I asked you to cite a source. You could not. You referred only to an anonymous collective of "coin dealers." You cited an unspecified population of "sliders."

I agreed up front that egregious examples exist. I deny that they are "market grading." They are failures in the system, not the standards of achievement. The Adams 1804 Dollar Class III might be the classic case in point.

Nevertheless, "market grading" is not the resubmission of a coin multiple times to purchase the grade you want.

 

This just shows how subjective grading is.Technically a MS63 coin is MINT STATE and definately not "AU",saying it can happen is stating the obvious,we're all human.That's were better services come in handy.They go for a concensus opinion of three different graders to arrive at their concluded grade,so the odds against human error just got better. 8) Still it goes to show that each collector should learn the basics themselves.
Happy New Year guys! ~ Jim

 

Sorry about your mother, Michael. You didn't cite any EXPERIENCE though. And that's my point. "Expertise" without experience is Ivory Tower grandstanding. You say things are the way they are because of a course you took and a video you watched. I say, look around the real world. It doesn't work this way. For better or for worse.

 

The info about slabs is awesome. Thanks.

 

Not sure where your going with this,but maybe a copy of the ANA Grading standards would help you out. :!: Grading starts with the coins surfaces and it's state of preservation.Perhaps wear wasn't the correct term,but most folks understand what I meant..Don't you realize a blank planchet can be graded,and I suppose they go by wear on the devices there?(C'mon,be realistic!)Your plainly saying MS63, MS65, and MS 67 are NOT grades! Perhaps it's time to take a refresher course?I think if you were to tell a grading company that MS65 wasn't a grade,they'd be happy to tell you your not a customer.Might I respectfullyt make one suggestion? try decaf. ~ Jim

 

Nevertheless,If you get coin pricelists,you regularly see coins graded "BU" without definative numbers.These coins are then ungraded because it doesn't pinpoint the exact degree of preservation?I don't think in most cases it's all that important. :roll: There are still many coin dealer's who refuse to grade numerically.Therefor,why is BU any more generic than XF, VF, or any other "term grade"? You have my attention 8O ~ Jim

 

Only if it was in my favor to do so wouldn't you :wink: ~ Jim

 

Grading Service Truths

Apparently "Reid Goldsborough" has [removed] about the various coin grading services.

First, when he discusses PCGS, he fails to mention that they have violated numerous code of The Federal Trade Comission (FTC) regarding the paid endorsements they receive from PNG because PCGS simply just happened to be the highest bidder for this "endorsement".

Second, NGC is quilty of the same crime insofar as they have paid of the ANA (American Numismatic Association) for a like endorsement.

The problem is that neither PCGS, NGC, PNG or ANA disclose this material fact to the public, thereby misleading the public and giving the customer some sort of false security.

Third, mr. "goldborough" fails to mention that David Hall runs PCGS or also runs David Halls North American Trading, David Hall Rare Coins and others.

Fourth, [removed] fails to tell the World that SEGS grading service owners is Larry Briggs, who also owns Larry Briggs rare coins.

Fifth, TCGS grading service is not owned by coin dealer in Florida who grades his own coins. It is an independant Corp, business, location and group of persons,

Sixth, NGC's founder is John Albanese. And there is also John Albanese Numismatics and David Albanese Rare Coins. A connection there?
Of course!

Seventh, Digital Coin Grading Service (DCGS) is owned by Janette Seligman who also owns GoldTown, Inc a coin dealer.

Eight, Numistrust Corp (NTC) is owned by Kevin McNerney who also owns Island Rarities, Inc a coin dealer

Nineth, Global Cert. Services (GCS) is owned by Jeff Garrett who owns and grades coins. He also owns Mid American Rare Coin Galleries, a coin dealer.

In Summary, people like "mr. goldsborough" are apparently affilated by one of the grading services that he "endorses" because he obviously owns coins grading by those services or sells coins grading by those grading services.

The Grading Policing Authority

 

I just received word that the above is not correct. The correct URL for TCGS is http://www.tcgs.org. Their Web site indicates that there is more than one grader involved. I'll post a corrected list in another message here.

 

What an interesting thread...

I didn't realize that there are so many self-proclaimed experts of grading and the grading services. And, the lot of them seem generally to be more eager to nitpick at what others write than to deal in more substantive commentary.

Unless you're a major participant of the industry where your business activity lives or dies by the grade (e.g., if you're a crackout dealer or a professional grader for a prominent service), then I'd suggest that you not proclaim your expertise too loudly.

EVP

 

all of this and a buck will get u a coffee and donut at Dunkin Donuts, oops did I just endorse them. I think not I just stated a fact. :?

 

Jess, I think it's more like $3.47 nowadays for a large coffee and a donut. :? pretty sad if you ask me.Now this thread brings up another question,is the "authorty" from Southern Florida affiliated with the notorious "AH" I know he's got a young feller working for him for his grading service,probably failed his eye test! 8) it wouldn't surprise me if they were related just as several of the ebay dealer's work for "AH" and specialize in peddling PCI and ACG graded coins. ~ Jim

 

Actually, I've gotten very, very few criticisms about this post about the grading services, here or elsewhere. This is all mainstream stuff, as balanced as I can make it. Those doing the criticizing seem to have vested interests, to be employed by one of the services not in the mainstream or to be selling coins in their slabs. The information I included is very much in line with the results of the PNG/ICTA survey and the material, though much more limited, in the Coin Dealer Newsletter. It doesn't mean that there are no mistakes in this post, but I correct them if they're pointed out to me. And it doesn't mean that only the mainstream services are worthy of consideration by coin collectors.

 

Now I understand this grading service thing a bit.

 

grading

I have seen 1925-s Buffalo nickels (which notoriously have a weak strike) graded by PCGS at MS64 and they don't look to good. I have a 1925-s Buffalo myself with nice luster and a decent strike graded by PCGS EF45. I haven't been a fan of PCGS and still aren't. I think there ego gets in the way of there grading. As other people have said grading is an opinion and I don't believe PCGS is any better than ICG or any of the top 4 or 5 grading companies. What is the reason there coins receive top dollar. I don't understand!