Byzantine 40 Nummis Justin II & Sophia

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Andres2, Feb 1, 2021.

  1. Andres2

    Andres2 Well-Known Member

    Added one more coin to my small Byzantine collection,
    both look funny with their little short legs:

    Jezus Christus Byzantium Justin II &Sophia 565-578BC (2).jpg
     
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  3. Mat

    Mat Ancient Coincoholic

    Great coin, congrats.
     
    Mammothtooth likes this.
  4. Herberto

    Herberto Well-Known Member

    "both look funny with their little short legs:"

    Hahaha..:joyful: Actually, they are setting.

    Here an ivory of empress Ariadne setting:
    Ariadne.jpg



    Some illustrations:

    1.png

    2.png
     
  5. DiomedesofArgos

    DiomedesofArgos Well-Known Member

    Congrats! I saw this coin as well and agree it has a nice look to it :cool:
     
    Quant.Geek likes this.
  6. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Well-Known Member

    I'll join the party!

    [​IMG]
    Justin II and wife Sophia, AD 565-578.
    Byzantine Æ follis, 31.2 mm, 14.52 g, 12 h.
    Nicomedia, AD 570/71.
    Obv: DN IVSTINVS PP AVG, Justin, on left, holding globus cruciger and Sophia, on right, holding cruciform scepter.
    Rev: Large M, surmounted by cross; officina B below; ANNO at left; G (regnal year 6) at right; NIKO in exergue
    Refs: Sear Byz 369; Dumbarton Oaks 96a; MIBE 46b.
     
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  7. +VGO.DVCKS

    +VGO.DVCKS Well-Known Member

    @Andres2, for detail and strike (...never mind patina and flan), that's a Truly --as in, I'm not over it yet-- exceptional example. I only ever had one, which wasn't as good as @Roman Collector's. But the two of them are starting to re-pique my interest in this whole, earlier phase of Byzantine.
     
  8. hotwheelsearl

    hotwheelsearl Well-Known Member

    My contribution to the war effort is this jagged 0.5 follis
    Justin II and Sophia Sear 366 (2020_11_18 03_38_31 UTC).JPG
     
  9. gogili1977

    gogili1977 Well-Known Member

    I will add two from Constantinople, one with chi-ro:
    imgonline-com-ua-twotoone-tES0EDanRc2gCHN.jpg
    imgonline-com-ua-twotoone-XUIgtY8f7mMB3I.jpg
     
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  10. Marsyas Mike

    Marsyas Mike Well-Known Member

    I really like those Justin II & Sophia folles - nice and big and often reasonably priced. Here is one from Contantinople (green) and Nicomedia (the sovereigns look like locusts)

    Is the one from Constantinople showing Justin II looking left, so he is in profile? Huh. I just noticed this possibility. Probably just the usual crude portraiture of the era and too much green patina.

    Byzantine - Justin II lot July 2018 (0).jpg

    Byz - Justin II Nicomedia Follis Dec 2019 (0).jpg
     
  11. ancient coin hunter

    ancient coin hunter 3rd Century Usurper

    Here's mine:

    Justin II and Sophia, AE Follis. 31.4 mm 13.79 grams

    Obverse: DN IVSTINVS PP AVG, Justin on left holding cross on globe and Sophia on right, holding sceptre topped by cross, both nimbate, seated facing on double-throne

    Reverse: Large M, ANNO to left, cross above, regnal year to right (year III), officina letter below, mintmark CON.

    Reference: SB 360, MIB 43. (492 (!) combinations known).

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  12. Quant.Geek

    Quant.Geek Well-Known Member

    Ditto! I passed it solely because I already had several of this type, but was really tempted. Glad it went to a fellow CT. There are several minor variations in this series, if your into that sort of thing. Here are some examples I have:

    [​IMG]
    Byzantine Empire: Justin II (565-578) Æ Follis, Constantinople, RY 1 (Sear 360; DOC 23d; MIBE 43)
    Obv: DNIVSTI-NVSPPAVC; Justin, holding globus cruciger, and Sophia, holding cruciform scepter, seated facing on double throne
    Rev: Large M; cross above, to left, A/N/N/O and date across right field; Δ below; CON in exergue


    [​IMG]
    Byzantine Empire: Justin II (565-578) Æ Follis, Cyzicus, RY 10 (Sear-372; MIBE 50)
    Obv: D N IVSTINVS P P AVG; Justin on left, Sophia on right, seated facing on double-throne, both nimbate, Justin holding globus cruciger, Sophia holding scepter, cross between their heads
    Rev: Large M, ANNO to left, cross above, X to right, A below; KYZ in exergue


    [​IMG]
    Byzantine Empire: Justin II (565-578) Æ Follis, Cyzicus, RY 8 (Sear 372; DOC 121d var; MIBE 502)
    Obv: D N IVSTINVS P P AVG; Justin on left, Sophia on right, seated facing on double-throne, with feet on footstool, both nimbate, Justin holding globus cruciger, Sophia holding scepter, cross between their heads
    Rev: Large M, ANNO to left, cross above, ςII to right, B below; KYZ in exergue


    [​IMG]
    Byzantine Empire: Justin II (565-578) Æ Decanummium, Theoupolis/Antioch (Sear 383; DOC I.111)
    Obv: D N IVSTINVS P P AVG; Justin, holding globus cruciger, and Sophia, holding cruciform scepter, seated facing on double throne, both crowned
    Rev: Large I between A/N/N/O and X and star; above, cross; in exergue, THЄЧP'
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2021
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  13. robinjojo

    robinjojo Well-Known Member

    Nice examples of Justin II and Sophia folles posted here.

    Here are two folles of Justinian I, Antioch. These examples feature Justinian I seated, and they demonstrate the limitations of Byzantine die engraving, especially when compared to Greek and Roman. Both coins, crusty and rough as they are, do show the emperor in a seated position, but really lacking any depth or refinement.

    Officina Γ

    16.7 grams

    SB 214

    D-Camera Justinian I follis.1, 527-565 AD Antioch  third officina, SB 214 16.7 g  2-2-21.jpg

    Officina Δ

    17.2 grams

    SB 214

    D-Camera Justinian I follis.1, 527-565 AD Antioch officina delta, SB 214 17.2 g  2-2-21.jpg

    This particular issue from Antioch almost always appears very crudely struck, usually with a decent amount of deposits, roughness and wear.
     
  14. hotwheelsearl

    hotwheelsearl Well-Known Member

    I never understood by Byzantine coins were so crudely engraved.

    it’s not like they couldn’t - here’s a missorium from Constantinople, 6th century. It rivals anything the Greeks or Romans did. What gives with the coins then?
    A5FFF468-E410-4522-86E0-DFB59F16C12C.jpeg
     
  15. Quant.Geek

    Quant.Geek Well-Known Member

    Those Justinian I coinage from Antioch are tough to get in good condition, especially the lower denominations:

    Sear-214(3).jpg
    Byzantine Empire: Justinian I (527-565) Æ Follis, Theoupolis/Antioch (Sear 215A; DOC 206dvar; MIB 128)
    Obv: D N IVSTINI-ANVS P P AVS; Justinian enthroned facing, holding long scepter with his right hand and globus cruciger in his left
    Rev: Large M between stars; above, cross; below, Γ; in exergue, +THЄЧP+


    Sear-214.jpg
    Byzantine Empire: Justinian I (527-565) Æ Follis, Theoupolis/Antioch (Sear 214; DOC 206a. MIB 130)
    Obv: D N IVƧTINI-ANVƧ P P AVS; Justinian enthroned facing, holding long scepter with his right hand and globus cruciger in his left
    Rev: Large M between star and crescent; above, cross; below, A; in exergue, +THЄЧP


    Sear-214(2).jpg Byzantine Empire: Justinian I (527-565) Æ Follis, Theoupolis/Antioch (Sear 214; DOC 206b; MIB 130)
    Obv: D N IVSTINI-ANVS P P AVS; Justinian enthroned facing, holding long scepter with his right hand and globus cruciger in his left
    Rev: Large M between star and crescent; above, cross; below, B; in exergue, +THЄЧP


    Sear-225(2).jpg Sear-225(1).jpg Sear-225.jpg
    Byzantine Empire: Justinian I (527-565) Æ Half Follis, Theoupolis (Sear-225; DOC 208.4; MIBE 135)
    Obv: D N IVSTINI-ANVƧ P P AVS; Justinian enthroned facing, holding long scepter with his right hand and globus cruciger in his left
    Rev: Large K; to left, cross dividing T H/Є Ч/O/P; Γ to right

    I am still on the hunt for the decanummium which is very difficult to find...
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2021
  16. robinjojo

    robinjojo Well-Known Member

    You have some really nice examples, especially considering how tough it is to locate well struck coins from the mint.

    I just took some snaps of a Justin II and Sophia follis that is another recovering bronze disease patient.

    This coin came in a large auction lot of Byzantine bronzes. The BD was occurring on the edge and in the middle of the reverse. Originally the coin had a really nice sand patina, but unfortunately that was lost during the treatment process, although small patches are still present.

    I really like this coin, especially its obverse. The coin, now is BD-free, and the lighter areas should tone down more.

    Constantinople, Year 3, officina Γ

    13.6 grams

    D-Camera JustinII and Sophia follis.1, 565-578 AD year 3,   third officina,  13.6 g  2-2-21.jpg
     
  17. +VGO.DVCKS

    +VGO.DVCKS Well-Known Member

    @hotwheelsearl, I'm betting that @Only a Poor Old Man, just for one, could discuss what was happening in other media --notably in contrast to contemporary coins-- in more depth than you'll get from here.
    But in the more specific, technical context of engraving and minting, the phenomenon evokes what I run into with European coins of the 'High Medieval' period (c. 1000 - c. 1250 /1300). Especially over the course of the 12th and into the mid-13th century, you can see a lag between state-of-the-art lettering, only most obviously on manuscripts, and how it translated to contemporary die-sinking practice.
    Which is not to minimize the likelihood that, in both collective cases, all kinds of other upheaval were contributing to the net effect. Just to start at a more prosaic, technical level....
     
  18. Quant.Geek

    Quant.Geek Well-Known Member

    The earlier regal years of Justin II and Sophia have a better portrait than later years and the Constantinople mint has a better features as well. That is a lovely coin with great strike!

    Each of the mints had their styles!

    Sear-369.jpg Sear-360(1).jpg
    Sear-372.jpg Sear-394.jpg
     
  19. DiomedesofArgos

    DiomedesofArgos Well-Known Member


    You gotta figure somewhere out there, there's one person who's dedicating themselves to collecting all 492 combinations. :pompous:
     
  20. Only a Poor Old Man

    Only a Poor Old Man Well-Known Member

    @hotwheelsearl I gave my thoughts on the Byzantine approach to art in coins in a recent thread. Here it is, I think it applies here too ;)

    I may have a contribution to this thread, but not quite yet as it is currently traveling around the world. If nothing happens to it in the dangerous world of today's postal systems, I will post it when it arrives (It could be a while).
     
    +VGO.DVCKS likes this.
  21. PeteB

    PeteB Well-Known Member

    Here's another one with the Chi Rho above the M:
    JustinII&SophiaConst-2.jpg
    Justin II, with Sophia. 565-578 AD. Æ Nummi – Follis (32mm). Constantinople mint, 3rd officina. Dated RY 6 (570/1). Obv: D N IVSTI NVS P P AV, nimbate figures of Justin and Sophia seated facing on double throne, holding globus cruciger and cruciform scepter, respectively. Rev: Large M; A/N/N/O to left, Chi-Rho above, ς (date) to right; Γ in field; CON in exergue. DOC 29b; MIBE 43d; SB 360
     
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