Crazy Boss- More rose throns and oil-1909 S

I am getting gutsy folks, but have gotten pretty good at this technique. Kids, novices, etc- don't try this at home!! I am absolutley confident this will grade and maybe upgrade to EF 45 I hope. Should I leave in flip to let the fresh copper tone down? I will post three sets of photos:

1. PCGS EF 40- prior to crack out. Couldn't stand the grime any longer.

2. Post rose thorns and oil with oil removed via xylene

3. With Blue Ribbon on:

Opinions please. I will resubmit. How would you do it? With oil or without? Doug and Leadfoot, Thad, eddispin- I already know your vote. You have prevoted:hail::hail:. But feel free to comment :thumb::thumb:
Please NO ONE POST til you see three seperate posts by me. 15 photos in all.

 

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After about two weeks in plastic cup and mineral oil and then using a fresh GREEN rose thorn very gently. Must turn the coin at angles to push the grime against the edges. Doing this in the field is very difficult. I wouldn't recommend anyone EVER doing this unless you are very practice. Trust me you WILL regret it. I have lost money in mistakes. Do a search of all my posts and you will see. I won't repeat it here.

 

I think you are nuts to try this, but other peoples opinions have not stopped you in the past and probably won't stop this.

 

I just bought a 1909-S on ebay. It was a pretty nice looking coin with some minor issues, which I personally graded an VG8 but it could rate an F12 depending on the grader. I have a pic of it posted on another thread. Your coin is very nice "as is". I would put it at an EF-45 already. The color, rim, and lilberty are very nice. I wouldn't do anything to it but that is just me. I don't like cleaned coins. If you put it on ebay, let me know. I may want to bid.

 

Part 3-Blue Ribbon, patted dry and then compressed air

I would submit with out without, but haven't decided. No hurry at this point. Open to suggestions. I am leaning toward letting tone down in a flip slowly and then submitting without any oil. Critcize if you like. I can take it now. Before I was too fragile :bigeyes:hya:

 

You've done a pretty good job with the cleaning. I must say that I liked it better before than after though. I'm not into the cleaning thing but again that may be just me. What are going to do to the reverse (oil it)?

 

Part 4- Blue Ribbon- more photos

Fire away. May soak longer again to get upper right Reverse junk off?


;sjdsf

 

I think the coin had already been cleaned long ago but made it into a slab over the years. Sorry but it now looks cleaned and messed with.

 

I agree

 

I agree.

 

The coin does look cleaned, but it also looks nicer than it did before.

 

I actually think the obverse turned out nicely. Unfortunately the marks from the long-ago cleaning or abuse are much more detracting on the reverse, now that you've cleaned it.

I don't think you did any damage in your efforts. Rather, I'd say the prior damage was already there and although is now more obvious, was already part of the coin as you purchased it.

Will you be resubmitting the coin to the same TPG once you are finished? I would think it would come back with a CLEANED designation with a DETAILS at least what it was prior to your efforts.

No, I would never attempt this myself. But this is fascinating nonetheless. Thanks for your documentary efforts!

 

I'm sorry folks, but I humbly and strongly disagree about this coin having been cleaned - this coin looks completely original to me. It does have the typical woodgrain toning on the reverse that is common with many 1909-S Indian cents. Perhaps what you are seeing is the shineyness from the oils. The brown tone I see from the photos looks like original toning to me. And the removal of grime that Boss has done, to me, has improved the quality of the coin. The lighter toning around the feathertips we see in the "after" photos is most likely due to the grime that covered those areas prevented the natural brown toning like the rest of the coin, and now that the grime is removed, we see a lighter shade in those areas which over time will also tone to brown like the rest of the coin.

 

I absolutely disagree that it looks cleaned. My grandmother actually owned this exact coin for over 50 years. It was in a old Whitman folder. I remember looking at it since childhood. She owned it since the 1930's. I assure she never cleaned it. I can't remember where I read it but the yellow toning on the reverse is very normal for this date (planchet issues). I have read this from several source, but I will have to research where I found it. What evidence of cleaning? Only problem with this coin in my opinion is the freshly nontoned copper areas where I removed the grime. They will tone down. I believe this will grade all day long, and not get bodybagged.

 

Bingo. I don't agree with this because it is my coin. If someone else posted this I would have said the same thing. It will tone down and blend easily in time in a paper flip in my antique drawer. I am willing to wait.

 

I would say let it retone

Nice job Boss :thumb:

 

I would call it 'conserved' rather than 'cleaned.' I don't see any damage from the dirt removal. It looks like your technique is very refined, Boss.

 

:thumb:

 

I agree that Boss did no damage to the coin. And if the reverse will eventually tone to a uniform color, then I'm very impressed. Nice work.

 

Those who said it was cleaned, I assume mean conserving is cleaning. This coin was never chemically cleaned by my grandmother. She never touched that coin, and new nothing about cleaning. Most of her coins had grime like this and they never, ever left that album. I would never sell this coin. I didn't like how it looked and felt very confident in my technique. I will repost after it tones down. If I never told anyone I did the above, and someone else posted this and said "grade this coin" I think everyone would have said EF whatever and "great coin", "wonderful" etc. I think some said it was "cleaned" because I told you all what I did. I suffer from over honesty, but I am trying to increase people's knowledge of things they may not understand or are familiar with. I am not promoting this technique except on low value coins. Don't take this wrong. I have done this A LOT. Do this at least 2-3 x/wk. Once the coin tones down I will repost. My 1911 S already has toned down. I will wait a few more months and resurrect that post with new photos.