graded

quick question for the day.
looking on ebay at franklin halves. I have been noticing that quite a few of the coins are graded, but they aren't going for a lot of cash. My question is how can they afford to sell these coins for such low amounts of money?
Doesn't is cost to have them graded? and is it worth picking these up for the amount?

I can't tell you what the grading companies are.

thanks in advance

JD

 

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Which grading company makes all the difference in the world. SGS regularly grades coins as MS70 that are barly AU58 in reality. There are a few other new no-name
TPGs popping up as well. In reality, these guys grade and sell their own junk. First
tier TPG`s like PCGS, NGCs high grade Franklins are not cheap.

 

thanks bzcollektor,

I don't know how this graded thing works. I will definately pay attention to the grading company!
JD

 

Some collectors mess up too when they send in a coin to get graded...they think it will come back MS65 and be worth $50 but when it comes back MS64 its only worth $25 they have to sell at a loss.

I sent a coin that I thought would grade MS64 maybe MS65 that I had paid AU price for...it came back AU50 CLEANED...I will be selling for a loss.

Speedy

 

Speedy,

Please don't tear me up too bad with this question.

Just because a coin is AU, doesn't mean it will grade high, correct?

Also, how much does it cost to have a coin graded?

JD

 

AU is a grade...its Almost Uncirclated...that means that it has some ware or in my case...it didn't have any ware but because of the cleaning it took the grade down to AU.

If a coin is AU then it can't grade any higher...

It depeneds on who you send the coin too and what kind of service you pay for but it can cost from $10 to $100 to have a coin graded....I send them to ANACS on the 5 day service and it cost $15 per coin.

Speedy

 

Come on Speedy, lets be fair. I'll bet you and I both know of coins which were graded AU several years ago and then broken out and resubmitted. They are now graded MS and absolutely nothing has changed so far as the coin goes. It's callled gradflation. I'm sure you have heard of it.

So a AU coin today coould possibly be a MS coin tomorrow. It happens al the time.

 

How...when ware is ware....it can't be UNC...unless our grading Co. go nuts.
I think it says...that when a coin has ware it is NO longer Mint State.

I have heard of many MS coins going up a few grades and I can see that....I can also see a coin grading G that it might go up to VG...but that was when new grades came out...I don't think we need any more grades...if anything we could cut out a few ;--)

So I don't think I would agree that soon a AU coin will grade MS.

Speedy

 

David Bowers wrote an article on just this subject "Gradflation". Look in Coin World.

 

Sorry....at this time I don't get CW....I might in a few weeks...an older collectors gives them to me every now and then.

Speedy

 

List of questionable "graders"

Is there a list on this site that keeps track of questionable graders? I have been trying to compile this myself from experiences on ebay and the threads here. I know opinions differ about the top graders, but what in your opinion are almost fraudulent graders. I see a lot of discussion about SGS here. I saw some Franklins on ebay by "Gallery Grading" that were just horrible. Any thoughts?

 

Gallery Grading had been around for awhile...its not good from what I have seen....

here is a link to a site---it list most Co...

http://www.sampleslabs.com/index.php

On that site there is a place that talks about a book....from what I have heard its great....I know the guy that wrote it.

Speedy

 

As a relatively new collector [not counting childhood] maybe I can offer an objective observation on grading [or maybe not ]. The whole Sheldon system needs to be replaced in my opinion. It just doesn't make sense. "Good" goes from 4 to 7, only three numbers. VF and EF cover twenty numbers. MS grades have a range of 11. The price difference between a VF20 and VF30, ten steps, is probably tiny. But the difference between MS64 and MS65 can be multiples of the price. The system is very difficult to understand and apply in my opinion. And this doesn't even bring in the factor of inconsistent standards between graders. I think what is needed is a coin grading constitutional convention to hammer out new standards.

 

Fraudulant Graders?

Anyone other than the big 3, PCGS, NGC, ANACS!!! ICG comes in a close 4th so should probably be added to the OK list. Any other should be avoided especially if you are concerned about the best possible future value of your investment.

 

Here you go, judge for your selves. If you want superior grading service you use NGC and PCGS.
If you are willing to settle for second best or average you use ICG and ANACS.

see for your selves how they were graded by Profesionals in the field.

http://www.bestcoin.com/Coin-Grading-Survey-Results.htm

 

I watch the grey sheets...

Check out the Grey Sheet rankings on the grading compnaies:

Grey Sheet LINK

For circulated grades and those MS65 and below, ICG is right there. I think they are liberal for PR/MS grades above 65, but for those circulated grades, they are right there.

It also helps when none of their employees are allowed to own, buy and sell coins to keep things impartial.

 

Very informative set of figures you have tere Midas.

It would appear that ICG would give PCGS a run for its money any day of the week, and if you compare ICG with ANACS they have them beat hands down.
It would seem that the dealers have put a lot of faith in ICG.

 

I don't understand the Greysheet rankings. The percentages don't add to 100% and there is no explanation on how to interpret them.

 

i am a little confused as well, what is LOW and HIGH?

 

Gallery Grading company is to be avoided at all costs, IMO. Two ebay vendors (shadowzen66 and jojax22) have hundreds of "GGC" coins listed at impossibly high grades. What do I mean- well shadowzen66 has 338 coins for sale on ebay now. Vast majority are "GGC", and at ludicrously high grades-all of the 44 GGC "graded" coins on the first page of current auctions are MS 66 to 68, EVERY franklin is FBL, EVERY dime FB. There was a 55-s MS 68 Red (per GGC) sold on ebay recently- well PCGS has certified ONE coin at that grade-NGC zero. One of these sellers recently bought 18 rolls of uncirc coins on ebay-just prior to GGC slabbed coins at these very rare (if true) grades showing up on ebay from the same seller. the odds against this many high grade coins being in these rolls are literally impossible, at commonly accepted grading standards.

IE on May 6, shadowzen66 bought a roll of 1962 franklins described by another seller as BU- well guess what- he has 8 1962 franklins, every single one graded MS 66 FBL, for sale on ebay now. He has sold 34! MS 66 1962 Frankies in the last month. PCGS has graded 12 coins at MS66 in that date/mm, NGC 11( and 2 higher). Jojax22 has 3 for sale right now at that grade/date/mm. He sold 17 since June 12th-guess what- all the 62's were MS66 FBL. Neither has any other grade of 1962 Frankies, all of them are FBL. One sold for $200+. The only reasonable term for this is fraud, IMO-these two new guys have in the past month listed/orsold 2X as many MS 66 1962 Franklins as NGC and PCGS have ever graded combined? I know that the lottery has better odds than these being graded by accepted standards- and I mean that literally!



Here's what their description says:
THE FUTURE OF GRADING COMPANIES HAS FINALLY ARRIVED. A SIMPLE RULE OF THUMB IS WHAT WE HAD IN MIND., (1) LISTEN TO THE CUSTOMERS,AND OFFER SERVICES AT A PRICE THE AVERAGE COLLECTOR CAN AFFORD. (2) MAKE YOURSELF ACCESSIBLE. (3) SEARCH HIGH AND LOW FOR TOP GRADE ITEMS, AND OFFER THEM AT PENNIES ON A DOLLAR. (4) OFFER THE SAME SERVICES AND PRICING FOR THE CUSTOMERS( NO MATTER HOW MANY ITEMS ARE SUBMITTED). (5) HAVE 48 HOUR TURNAROUND AT NO EXTRA COST.(6) HAVE A FACILITY THAT IS OPEN TO THE PUBLIC . (7) ALWAYS REMIND THE CUSTOMER THAT GRADING IS OBJECTIVE, AND AN OPINION, SO BUY THE COIN, NOT THE HOLDER. (8) CLOSE EVERY TRANSACTION WITH THANKS FOR YOUR PURCHASE.(9) BECAUSE GRADING IS OBJECTIVE, OFFER A 7 DAY RETURN POLICY, IF IT DOESNT MEET YOUR OPINION. THANKS A MILLION YAHOO MEMBERS, WE LOVE YOU , COME BACK ANYTIME. Coin prices are derived from Coinuniverse when possible. They have a solid reputation for their efforts on up to date prices for United States coins. The website can be reviewed at www.pcgs.com . At times prices will not be available from coinuniverse, so we will refer to Greysheet and Redbook of United States coins. If no value can be found, we will only list authenticity and our grading opinion. We have chosen these three sources due to the paramount reputation as leaders in the coin industry. Gallery Grading co. Is registered with the state of Missouri #19014597 , Our facilty is over 31000 square ft. making us one of the larger coin organizations in the country. Submissions can be made by mail, or in person (Thursday-Saturday) 11-4 at Gallery Grading Co, 400 Main St. New Madrid Mo 63869 United States. Or visit us online.


Note the line where they say grading is "objective"-it's pretty clear they mean to say subjective! They use the scam artists technique of quoting PCGS prices for coins that won't come near to PCGS grading standards.

Don