Novice seeks advice/opinions about recent purchase

Description of my purchase:

2005 US Mint SP69 (ICG) Complete 22-Coin Set - 1st Day release
Numbered set: limited to 469 sets
Certificate of authenticity
Paid $500.00 (about $550.00 with tax and shipping)

...one coin each from both the Philadelphia and Denver mints for a total of 22 coins. The collection includes (2) pennies, (2) dimes, (2) Buffalo and (2) Ocean View nickels, (10) new state quarter releases, (2) Kennedy half dollars and (2) Sacagawea golden dollars. The brand new quarter releases reflect the 31st through 35th states to join the Union - California, Minnesota, Oregon, Kansas and West Virginia. Each coin is individually encapsulated in a clear acrylic holder to preserve beauty and condition and placed in a blue storage box. A separate museum box holds the Sacagawea dollars.

-------------
I know absolutely nothing about coin collecting! I bought it as a prospective investment, and I'm feeling a bit nervous. I know return on investment in coin collecting is speculative, but would all you expert collectors be willing to help an absolute novice out and share your knowledge on this? Thanks in advance!

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

Welcome to the Forum

As far as investing in coins, the closest to a "sure thing", is to buy coins for the bullion value, i.e. buying silver, gold, or platinum coins. If the coins never go up in value numismatically, they will still be worth their spot price/melt value. Even in this case, as you stated, its speculative, but less so than guessing what coin, year, grade etc. will go up and hold its value over the years.

I'm guessing by the price and description, your set may have been bought on HSN or another TV shopping channel. If so, you've definitely paid too much. TV shopping channels are known for having markups almost 1/3 higher your average coin dealer.

Best advice I can give you before purchasing any more coins is READ READ READ. Its a often repeated phrase here A good place to start is by purchasing a copy of "The Red Book 2005" which sells for $15 or much less if you pick up a copy from ebay.

Hope this helps.

 

Ultimately the value of your set will be the combined value of all the coins in
the set. In the mean time it's entirely possible that there could be a substantial
set premium for these. While I wouldn't necessarily suggest you sell it, you have
paid an apparently large premium for the coins. If the coins are better (unlikely)
than most others then the quality might well pay you back handsomely. There
are lots of great classic and modern coins (and bullion) which would make an at
tractive "investment" but it's often the oddball stuff that does best.

These things are smoking hot right now but this could die down.

Believe it or not the people who tend to do the best in numismatics are usually
collectors first and investors second or third. Collectors learn what coins are
worth and which are underappreciated.

 

Both of you--thank you for sharing your knowledge!

Yes, lawdogct, these were bought on HSN--good call. And I speculated that purchasing a collectible item from such a place would mean I was paying more than I should. It's probably taboo and a definite no-no among knowledgeable coin collectors, right? Fortunately, I still have time to return them if I so decide. Actually, I haven't even received them yet. It makes sense what you say about buying coins for the bullion value. It's still speculative, because the value of gold, silver, etc. fluctuates, but it's probably a more solid investment practice.

And cladking, getting the best return on investment is probably best achieved like you say--by those who are collectors first, and investors second.

The "salesman" from HSN said these were a brand new finish--a satin finish, and that the SP designation was new too. True, or was I fed a line? The fact these are a first day issue, limited set of 469 sounded good too. Or is that not really anything of special note? (I realize how naive and gullible I sound.)

 

Don't worry about sounding naive or gullible, we all start collecting coins at the same point, the begining

The SP designation does refer to a satin finish, but the technique has been around and used by the mint for many many years, just not that often. The twist here is that the US Mint has replaced the standard uncirculated mint coin sets with sets of satin finished coins. All the sellers and marketers are still scrambling to name this new type of set. The most common notation for it is SP, meaning Satin Proof, which is an erroneous name as by definition these are not proof coins.


Check out the usmint.gov website for more information and click HERE for a direct link to info on the satin finish sets.

 

So what's the difference between what I paid $500 for and the set directly from the government that's $17?! Is it that the set I bought is a First Day issue and a limited set of 469?

 

Let me be the first to say what a lot of people are thinking but afraid to tell you, because we all want to be nice to newcomers to the hobby.

You got reamed.

Now, that said...I like ICG and nothing is wrong with MS69 stuff in general. The problem is, in theory, if you broke those coins out of the plastic, what's the real value of those coins....$17 (maybe a few dollars more if they really have a tremendous mark-free look).

Do NOT buy from the TV. They typically charge 100% over FULL RETAIL. They have a ton of overhead and that's how they pay for it. You were screwed by at least $250, if not more.

As far as getting modern material for "ga-ga" grades like 69 and 70. You have to really examine if it's worth it. Do you really believe it's an investment? I think it would be poor to think of it that way, but that's my opinion. If so, then I sort of understand what you're doing but you're paying a MASSIVE premium for a label and the plastic that calls it an MS69/70. Do you want to go for the look of the coins because you like them, like how most in the hobby got started and still pursue it (like me)? If so, then buy the coins raw or at the most get slabbed (PCGS/NGC/ICG) MS67/68 from dealers at coin shows or in advertising and get the ones that you like the eye appeal most. That way, you'll be able to afford more coins, better quality, and enjoy the hobby more knowing that you'll be able to sell for a better percentage than when you buy from overpriced dealers like the TV.

 

I know your not going to like me after this...but....

I'm sorry to say it but I wouldn't have paid $50 for that set....

If you can send them back do so---at least that would be my pick.

The TV show is a rip off...and is not good to buy a thing at in my view point.
I would say that ICG graded the coin maybe right and at the most...they were off 1 point.

Speedy

 

Unfortunately, Prethen is right. HSN is a regular topic of derision here because of its near-comical (to educated collectors) sales pitches.

The sad thing, though, is that HSN is also the avenue where many people get their first experience of numismatics, and for many it also happens to be their last experience when they realize how badly they were taken.

All of us had to learn how to be responisble collectors over time and even though many of us had the luxury of learning from a parent, grandparent, or other relative as a child (and thus made our mistakes with very small amounts of money) we all made the same mistakes all new coin collectors make. The good news is that you still have time to return the coins and I highly recommend it.

The set from the mint isn't graded by a reputable 3rd party grading service and your coins are. The coins from the mint are likely to mostly be less than MS69 quality, while yours have a respected opinion saying that they are nearly perfect. As for the first day of issue, that means nothing. It means that the coin sets were ordered the first day that the mint website had them available, but they are not guaranteed to be the first coins struck, or the nicest coins struck, or even from the first set of dies used to strike the coins; it is merely a marketing ploy to get people to buy them. The 469 number probably just represents how many sets were packaged for HSN by ICG that came from HSN's initial mint order.

Good luck and please don't let this experience sour your opinion of numismatics, there are a ton of GREAT people involved in this hobby and if you left now you'd miss out on meeting them!

 

I agree with Prethen and Speedy. Avoid those home shopping coin shows like the plague!! If you like and want that set, chances are someone else has them for $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ less than what you paid. If you notice these home shopping shows always have limited sets that quickly sell out then a week or two later they mysteriously find another 469 sets, then another and on and on.

 

I echo those who advised to return them. Mezak on HSN, and the two hillbillys on
SAH are shameless in their dishonesty. RUN away from anything "layered in 24k pure
gold or platinum". Believe not a word they say.

Welcome Avenger. Many here will help with almost any question you may have.

Bruce

 

My apologies to any hillbillys

 

I think the solution to my now discovered problem is simple--return them as soon as possible!! I'm not much different than most people in that, sure, I'd like a quick way to make some easy mullah, and those TV salespeople do a great job convincing you there's great money, seemingly easy money, to be made in collecting coins. It appears that way anyway, looking at the amounts they're charging. And to someone not in the know, it seems there's real value in what they're selling. There is--just not as much as they're trying to lead you to believe. They roped me in, confound it! I'm usually a very cautious person, even skeptical. I'll just chalk this up as a moment of temptation and vulnerability and move on. Thankfully I'm able to return them--assuming HSN's policy of being able to return something within 30 days in true. I'm not even opening the box to look at them before I send them back!!

And also thankfully, there's folks like you who are willing to share from there experience with someone like me. Thank you!!

 

Nothing but good professional advice has been given here! Coin collecting is a great hobby full of potential but not from TV or media ads! They are ALL scammers! Find a dealer in your area, read magazines or subscribe to Coin World! I would suggest Coin World due to the amazing amount of ads in which a new comer can compare prices. Also buy that Red Book! Don't feel to bad about getting burnt as we have all made our mistakes! If you can send the coins back for a refund---DO SO! If not, then enjoy them as part of your collection and think of them every time you get ready to make another purchase! Collect WISELY!

 

There are some threads here on good books to read for beginners, too.

 

If you like these coins then it might be a great "investment" to buy the coins
in NGC or PCGS holders so that you can be a little more sure of what you're getting.
$550 might or might not be enough to buy them but that's not the point. If you
have the time and don't mind a little work the very best way to acquire many mod-
erns is as raw coins. For $1700 you could buy 100 new sets from the mint and go
through looking for the best of each coin. When you're done sell what's left over
and you'll recoup almost all your money (maybe even more) plus you'll have the finest
specimen of each coin. While the best of some may not even be as good as the HSN
coins it's a safe bet you'll get a few that are simply spectacular and nearly unimpro-
vable. A single MS-70 might sell for more than all 100 sets.

Keep in mind there are no sure things and this one is no exception. Markets can
change after you commit to them. Try the USmint website and if you try it then be
sure to order the sets in batches. These sets are packaged consecutively and
sold as they come. This means if you buy a large number in one shot you might get
all bad sets or all good sets. For your purposes you'd probably want something like
a sample.

 

May be you can sell them on ebay. Look at what the seller got for this MS69 2005D Sacagawea Satin finish. Two Idiots Met With Sniping in Mind

 

sometimes i tune in to the shopping network "coin show" and just sit there with my jaw dropped, my wife gets mad at me when i tune in... all i do is mutter " I can't beleive these people! "

anywho... return them, order 5-ten sets from the US mint directly, its cheaper

A recomendation: of the 500.00 you spent on the HSN, take some of it and purchase a couple books, the redbook is a good start. get some whitman folders, nickels, quarters, dimes, etc ( modern issue ) and go to the bank and purchase rolls of coins, start filling the albums.
I think this is the best way to learn about the hobby!

1. its cheap, besides the redbook and folders you are paying face value for the coins ( no danger in loosing money )
2. it can be very relaxing
3. ITS CHEAP! probably the cheapest way to be a coin collector!

thats how i really started to get into the hobby, seems like many of us did

The best advice is the "old" advice:

1. buy the book before the coin
2. buy the best coin you can for your money
3. buy the coin, not the holder ( if you purchase slabbed coins )
4. don't buy anything off of the T.V.
5. buy what you like ( coins can take years as an investment before they make good money, you don;t want to have a coin you hate staring at you for years )
6. stay away from cleaned/damaged coins.

i am sure that we can come up with four more "rules" and have ten commandments

 

Return-Return-Return-Return-Return-Return-Return-Return-Only my point of view-But return

 

"May be you can sell them on ebay. Look at what the seller got for this MS69 2005D Sacagawea Satin finish."

That price was for PCGS. HSN sells ICG. Not the same league.