New IHC - First unc.

Hey bud, you have the coin in hand. I have stated here on sooooo many occasions how difficult it is to grade from pics. You say it's kosher, right on. Enjoy and ignore us internet Monday morning quarterbacks :thumb:

 

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The Man12- I can't tell if it's been cleaned but I would not discount AJ's opinion (just MHO). I think it shows no signs of wear except the lower curl of the hair below band with diamonds. It is probably strike weakness on that part of the die. If not for the carbon I would say 64 RB, but would grade 62-63 because of spots on obverse/reverse. It's a decent coin for the price to me. Thanks for posting

 

Sorry- I didn't see these last few posts. Bryd and Mark H made some great points and I agree.

 

First let me say, I love any and all Indian cents, including yours. However, from the photo, IMHO the coin looks like it has unc details but may have been cleaned or dipped, but it's hard to tell since the photo makes the coin look pretty light. However, often when a coin was cleaned or dipped, over time the spots that were being removed from the "cleaning" start showing up again. If it hasn't been cleaned, it would probably grade MS62 RB, again due to the spots.

 

This thread makes Leadfoot cry.

 

Please don't cry - hey, haven't you heard, "There's no crying in coins"!

 

I am not disregarding AJ's opinion. I can completely understand why he thinks that and he knows as much about copper as anyone on this forum. Please don't take it that way. Maybe if someone else posted the same pictures I would say the same thing, but all I know is that this is one coin that is definitely not cleaned. I'll try to take some better looking pictures after school today.

 

It does look cleaned and re-colored

It does look cleaned and re-colored that's why the spots on the obv. have deepened from the chemical alteration at some point.
Look, this coin was not damaged to much but was cleaned and or/re-colored that's all there is to it - I've seen this ten thousand times.
Those spots are not natural to a mint state coin - sure there may be carbon or spots but they will not "explode", deepen or grow larger in diameter) the way these have.
I'll tell you something else - learning original copper color is not for the faint of heart! I've been working with a few, some long time coin dealers that just cannot "git it". As with doublED dies some folks cannot "get it" - they truly lack the ability to interpret these subtle points and it's know fault of there own - I really think they "do not see it"!

 

I would give it an MS-63RB and think that it was a good deal! You do need to get that spotting under control as it appears to be the starting of corrosion that could do some serious damage to the coin.


Frank

 

Don't you all get it - those spots have appeared where

Don't you all get it - those spots have appeared where the cleaning was to much - on those very spots is where the original surfaces were interrupted by something and went too deep.
Spots like that prove themselves. In other words "it's a giveaway".

 

I mean no disrespect, nor do I think the other members whose opinions are that this coin was cleaned, truly. I specialize in Indian and Lincoln cents, that's all I collect and sell, and have been doing so for many years. I feel very comfortable in my knowledge of copper, and what original coins look like. And AJ is correct in that photographs are deceiving and it is hard to see true toning from a picture.

So tell me, if you tilt the coin and look very carefully with a loupe under a good strong light, do you see fine hairlines on either side? They show up best in the field in front of the face. This is a tail-tail sign of a "cleaned" coin. But even without hairlines, the coin was most likely dipped a while ago in a chemical such as jewelry cleaner to remove the original spots and try and return the coin to its original "red" color. However, over time, the coin can retone to a somewhat natural looking red/brown, however, the spots will most often reappear, as I mentioned above. BHP is right in that spots that look like these are a sign of a cleaned coin. Consider this, even with the spots, why do you think you got such a good deal on this coin?

All this being said, AJ and others are correct in that, if you are happy with the coin, what does it matter what we or anyone else thinks? That's how I feel about my own collection - I collect what I like, no matter what others think. I love toned coins, and I have friends who think purple blue or rainbow colored coins are not natural and do not like them at all. What do I care - I am spending my money for these coins, and they please me, that's all that matters - bottom line. Simply, just enjoy your coin because you like it!

 

Here it is. Definitely no hairlines. Trust me I'm experienced enough to catch that. Maybe it was dipped awhile back, but it looks so natural in hand. I just looked at the pictures I took and they are way off. Hope this is a little better.

 

Still looks original to me....

 

That's what I think too, but I definitely understand the thought with those last pictures. Also, I have to disagree with you on this one, bhp. I don't think those kind of spots are limited only to cleaned coins. Maybe they are more common on improperly cleaned coins, but not restricted to them.

Just wondering guys, does this last picture change your opinion or no?

 

The coin look WAY better in the album shot, it shows luster not present in the first pics. Ya see gang, pics on the net are tricky.

To be honest, I have gotten into trouble when trying to make judgement calls from pics.......you have to be a real pro to be able to present a coin in a digital pic on the net. This is a perfect example.

 

I agree with AJ, the photo of the coins in the album makes the coin look more natural, and makes the spots less distracting. Very nice coins Man12.

 

I still like the color, nice coin!

 

As I mentioned I still think it would look nicer in my dansco album. Yes the picture is better.

 

and the reverse

 

Oh yeah, original and beautiful...
62-63 RB, maybe a 64...Who knows...