What does this phrase mean?

The NGS grading service returned a coin without grading it, and their reason was "altered surface".

Does anyone know what that means? I understand "cleaned" and "lacquered," but I don't know what to make of "altered surface".

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

It's actually a catch all for many things folks do to coins trying to improve them.

 

If NGC returned a coin without grading it, and they this was their stated reason, does that mean this coin is ruined and will never get a grade?

 

It means NGC would not slab it (unless it slipped past them somehow). I think ANACS would slab it with a notation of "Altered Surfaces", "Cleaned" or whatever the case may be.

 

Depends on the coin and what was done before I would say it was ruined. As mentioned ANACs, NCS would net grade it. PCGS would probably put it into a genuine holder. How about a picture of the coin.

 

Some people will try anything to "improve" a coin , usually it's just a cleaning , some outright try to defraud people with anything from Artificial toning , to changing a date or MM , or try to strengthen certain parts of the coin to make it look like a higher grade all as stated before are altered surfaces .
rzage

 

Many times the grading services don't know what was done to a coin.
They just know something was done. If it has a funny look they probably won't wish to guaranty it.

 

I tried to upload a pic, but it didn't work.

 

what coin, date and mm?

 

It's a 1907 St Gaudens High Relief Double Eagle

 

interesting, I'd really like to see a decent pic.

 

Here is a pic of the coin:

http://www.cointalk.com/forum/members/topo/albums/387/6126/

 

Since PCGS has a separate identifier for "cleaned" and for "Questionable color", the only common thing left is Over-Dipping or Chemical treatment of surface. I don't think the coin is necessarily ruined as it is only an opinion/suspicion.

Jim

 

yeah - I agree it is an altered surface and you can kick the person who did that!

 

The color looks off, and the luster looks very poor ( Compared to the details of the coin ) If you have a good loupe or macro, it would be interesting to see the surface. I would have thought that questionable color might be more appropriate, but how do you alter the color of gold alloys without some powerful stuff. Some people have tried to remove "copper spots" when they are present, and maybe that kind of damage is visible under magnification.

Jim

 

That doesn't look polished to you?

 

I was told this coin is now worth $10-15k, but had it not been altered, it might fetch 4 times that much.

Agree or disagree?

 

if the date has been altered, no. gold value only

 

Ruben, I don't see the reflective fields you would normal see in a straight on photo. Generally polished coins tend to look prooflike, this one looks dull like someone had copper spots and dipped it. The copper molecules would be "eaten" by the acidic dip whereas the gold molecules would not. That would produce a "pixelated" surface and less reflective, and the color of the copper would be altered on the molecular level, but the gold color wouldn't.

This is of course due to the fact that the gold and copper do not chemically combine but exist separate in a mixed molecular matrix.

I seriously doubt that there would be that much difference. But JMHO.



Jim

 

I think that it would be labeled "not genuine" by NCG if the date was altered.

Jim