Fremont Coin - Beginners Beware

Hey out there everyone. I'm somewhat of a newbie in coin collecting. I inherited my parents coin collection which they obtained from their backyard. (they literally dug them up). I have a huge assortment of coins (hundreds of them) ranging from indian head pennies, large cents, half cents, half dimes, varias nickels and 5 cent pieces, 3 cent pieces, morgan dollar, peace dollars, trade dollars, commemorative coins, varias mercury dimes, half dollars and quarters (seated liberty, standing liberty, walking liberty, barber, etc.) as well as one St Gaudens Gold Double Eagle. I've been researching the history of these coins like mad, buying books on how to grade them, etc. and I've searched the internet as well. I decided to take my coins to a place in California called Fremont Coin. A husband and wife runs the shop, and I had hoped to get their expertise on my coins, and I was be hoping they would be able to share some of their expert knowledge, give me tips on what to look for in grading, and basically share in my enthusiasm of the treasures my deceased parents left for me. My experience there was so awful that I don't even know how they could be considered a source as an "authorized dealer" for PCGS. The man, Vincent, was so rude, and clearly doesn't give a rats ass about true coin collecting, but merely to make a quick buck. I had a large rolling type suitcase of my coins (not all of them mind you) and when I first walked into the semi crowded small shop, I was greeted very warmly. The owner even asked another customer to move his collection off of a chair so that I could sit down and show him my coins. So I brought them out, mind you they were all in their own plastic coin bags and seperated by type of coin and I had written small notes on what I felt their grade to be as well as the current 2006 market value which I obtained from US Coin Digest (Edler and Harper, 2006). He looked at the first set, my plentitude of Peace Dollars (all of which I graded to be at least Very Fine or better) and he said they were common and he picked up a pail and showed me coins that he had allegedly obtained that were Peace dollars, to show me that he thinks that little of them that he just throws them in a bucket. He starts looking at them one by one very quickly and hitting the buttons on his adding machine. Every now and again he would make a comment on how one was damaged and he would put it in another pile. When he was all finished, he hastily tossed my coins back in the tupperware container I had them organized in and he KEPT THE DAMAGED ONES out and put them in a seperate plastic baggie and told me those were the ones he was MOST INTERESTED in, and then he tells me I've got $1400 worth of coins right there. He then says, "that's a lot of money".....now by this point, I am getting the idea that he is looking at me like I don't have a husband with a very lucrative business, and might I mention that I by no means consider $1400 to be a lot of money (that's how much money I have in my 'mad money' account alone....) Anyways, so he tells me he would buy the coins from me for $1400, and I had to tell him right away that I wasn't ready to sell them, and I reiterated to him for the SECOND time why I was there. He told me he didn't want to waste too much time if I wasn't going to sell them, and so I asked him if I could pay him to appraise the coins for me. By this time the other customers were intently listening, and he tells me I have nothing of value to substantiate paying for an appraisal, and he tells me that he can tell just by seeing those Peace Dollars that I have what everyone else has, and that he's already seen it all. I said to him "well how do you know just by looking at my tupperware containers what I've got that you can make a statement like that?" He said "I'm a dealer, I'm an expert, and I know what I'm talking about". I thought Okay, I'll go then...but wait.....oh no no no....he continued to look at my coins anyways when he could see that I was just fine putting them away and leaving. So I sat there and decided to ride the wave.....if you know what I mean. The long and short of it is that this man was so vile to deal with that I want to warn any newbie, old timer or in between to beware of such sharks infesting the waters out there. He tried to tell me that my trade dollars were counterfeit, (little did he know they were already tested for authenticity long before I ever even got them), he told me that my 1927 Saint Gaudens $20 Double Eagle Coin which is in mint, uncirculated condition was only worth its weight in gold. He looked at my Morgans and tore them up (now these are at the very worst, VF condition and that's the very worst, I had some help grading these), not to mention I've got like 50 of them in consecutive years even.....So this fool tells me after grazing over what make up only some of my entire collection and he tells me they're not worth sending to PCGS for certification (I think they'd be pretty ****ed that one of their authorized dealers is blowing them off like that), and that the sum of all my coins (now remember the amount he was willing to pay for just the peace dollars, and those only made up an 1/8 of the quantity I had) the total value for all of my coins was anywhere from $1400 - $3000!!!! Meaning that my gold piece coin, my two huge tupperwares of XF condition Morgans and all the rest that I mentioned in the beginning of this posting, all of those together were only worth $1600 at the most? Since we'd already established he wanted to buy my Peace dollars for $1400. He told me that $3000 was a lot of money and I quote "so what if they were your dead parents, you should sell them and take that $3000 and open yourself up an IRA for your children". It was all I could do not laugh in his face and to tell this ******* that my children already have all of their college money put aside and that's enough savings for if they go to Harvard like their Dad did so no worries there pal!! And furthermore, $3000 is again, chump change....especially when you compare it to the sentimental value they have from my parents (god rest their souls, my dad would have choked me in heaven if I'd have sold even a bad penny to this guy) Okay so the final insult.....I asked before I left (and mind you this is after he mentioned buying them from me about two more times) if he sold Loops. His wife pulls out a MAGNIFYING GLASS....and I said, well, do you have the kind he was using on my Trade dollars? And that stuck up ***** said "you mean the $250 one?". Now, granted I was surprised at how much it was, but that's only because my parents literally had 3 of these suckers, in which I personally have one of my own, it's just stored away somewhere in my garage and I was too lazy to find it. I thought it'd be easier just to buy another. So her husband then says, "You don't need a loop of this degree to grade your coins", as he chuckled under his breath. I already have one of those two bit magnifying glasses that lights up at the end that they were trying to pawn off on me. Let me give you a tip on that one too....Borders Books for $9.99....as opposed to the $19.99 they wanted to charge me. I couldn't just leave without at least showing these idiots that I may look like I was going to buy their bull**** (they treated me like I was a tiny little spec) but don't let looks be deceiving...and so I said I wanted to buy this cheap little coin catalog book and the man rang me up and I reached into my bag, and pulled out the wad of cash I had stuffed in there hurriedly as I was leaving today, and I fumbled through the money which was mostly $100 bills and I said "geez I know I have some ones somewhere in this pile".....and I paid with three crisp one dollar bills, smiled, thanked them for their time, and wheeled my "worthless coins" out the door.
I am posting this because I'm feeling rather petty today, and these fools ****ed me off. Where do they get off representing the coin collecting world with those attitudes? I wanted to make sure I let anyone and everyone know that Vince Lacareire of Fremont Coin Gallery along with his stuck up holyer than thou wife are NOT worth wasting your time talking to, much less selling to or buying from.
Lastly I just want to say (in case Vince or someone who knows him is reading) "My coins may be "worth nothing" Vinney boy, but you were sure willing TO GIVE ME a minimum of $1400 for them CASH on the spot!! So what does that say about YOU! I think I'll hang onto my "worthless treasures"....thanks....... but no thanks!!.....oh and the gold Susan B Anthony, the minted error one that you said was spending money....I think I'll have that one appraised by a real expert.....I've been told it's worth a minimum of $10,000. You feel free to go and spend your two bit shiny gold one that you compared it to. Mine is authentic loser!!!!
Beginners Beware....and tell 'em Noelle said so!!!!

 

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I don't have time to post to all of this right now but I will say this...

I agree with him on that one....more than likely its plated and not worth much...now before you get mad at me...I say he was in a bad mood and no, he shouldn't have treated you the way he did...but maybe you should go to a few more dealers...maybe some are fakes...maybe some a rare...but don't take the word of 1 guy...

Speedy

 

Hi Speedy, thank you for your response. I know I sound like a witch in my posting, and quite honestly I am never nasty like this, but this guy really pushed my buttons when he made that comment about my poor dead parents. He treated me as if I may be someone trying pass off bad coins on him, and the bottom line is this: I know that they aren't counterfeit. My parents had a friend who had numismatic experience look at the coins and he did tell them that some of them weren't worth saving and those coins were left out of my inheritance collection. I'd have gone back to this guy that they knew, but sadly, he too is dead now.

I do agree that not all dealers are going to be like this guy, but I wasn't trying to dis on all dealers in my posting. That is why I specifically said their name. I apologise if any other dealers out there were offended by what I wrote. I don't believe dealers are bad. I believe this particular dealer was a crook. I do plan on going to someone more reputable however.

As for the Susan B Anthony Dollar Coin......it very well may be that it's not a mint error and that it was painted; however this particular coin was already placed in a plastic sleeve by my dad before I got it. Which tells me that their numismatic friend must've selected that as one of the ones to take extra good care of (they have a total of 6 coins already encased in plastic as suggested they do by their friend). In any case, whatever its value, its one that my father valued....so it could never be spending change.

I appreciate your reply dear. I'm sorry if I was too brask in my posting. I don't claim to know a lot about coins, but I can tell a lot about people and the man I spoke with today at his coin shop wasted my time and talked down to me like I was some drug addict, hard up for money, loser who probably stole my collection. And that was only after I was firm about not being there to sell them. He knew this when I spoke to him over the phone even. He just didn't think I would turn down his ridiculous offer of "that large sum of cash".....it was very insulting and for a newbie talking to someone for the first time that is an alleged expert.....it makes me less inclined to do more with my coins besides mount them where they can be seen by everyone as my parents treasures. Their value does not outweigh their sentimentality. And I would feel that way even if I was destitute.

Take care hun. And again....I did not mean to offend anybody. My posting was merely to warn.

 

Welcome to the Forum.....

Maybe or maybe not...dealers are NOT collectors...they are dealers....if some of the coins you had were "dug" up from the ground they might be in worse grades than they look...like if the coins had been cleaned that would lower the grade..etc

That is one problem--that is NOT the 2006 price guide...that is a ball park price guide and you may get more or you may get less...most of the time less

Unless the coins are dated 1921 1928 1934-S they aren't worth a lot...most of the time I can get any date (but the 3) for around $10-$15

I would say that he was rude...but maybe you took some of it the wrong way....he shouldn't have charged you for looking at them and so in that way he was right...

They could still be fake...someone may say they are real and mess up....I have messed up in the past...you have too...and even experts mess up.

What grading guide did you use???....
Is anything wrong with the 1927 Gold piece...like cleaning or nicks or digs or such??

Now lets not call him a fool yet...he could have had a bad day (and that doesn't mean he had the right to treat you that way) and also many common date coins are NOT worth sending in to PCGS...it would cost more to have then graded than you couuld sell them for


Speedy

 

Welcome to the forum Noelle;
Sorry to haar of your experience with the so called dealer. It would appear that the only thing he left out is wearing a mask when making these offers. I will say this, and truly believe what I say; you didn't see the "normal" every day coin dealer who is interested in what you have and how he/she can help you with your coins.
Our new moderator Speedy would almost fall into this line in that as a teen ager he gets a little carried away with his suggestions and reasoning for the way he sees the situation. His heart is in the right place, but take the offerings with a spoon of sugar. If you know what I mean.

Now go out and find another dealer that maybe couold be recommended by someone you know who collects coins. Keep trying until you have the answers to the questions you want answered. You are in no hurry and so use it to your advantage.

Hope you have better luck with the next person you ask to help.

 

Awwlw.....you are very sweet! I have actually appreciated very much the things Speedy has told me. His information seems genuine, and it is obvious to me that his heart is in the right place. So Speedy, to you I want to say thank you so much hun! Your information I have already written down and taken to heart because I can see that you are a tell it like it is kind of person and I truly truly respect that.

As for the coins you had mentioned Speedy, I do actually have 1928S Peace Dollars. I have many 1922's and 23's....some which look brand new.

About my parents coins: they not only found these coins in the ground in their backyard....these coins were buried inside of a cheese type of cloth and then stuck inside of a tin can with a lid on it. That is where the $20 double eagle came from. That is where many of the Peace and Morgan Dollars came from. Now, the others, that is the half dimes, the half cents, the large cents, the indian head cents, and so forth.....some of those were dug up directly from the dirt, and others were dug up having been buried inside of other objects, such as tin cans (very old cans mind you), and a wooden box, and to be honest with you, I wish I could remember more, but I was already married when they found these coins, so I wasn't around for much of the digging that they did. They also found lots of buried jewelry, gold jewelry, some with a tiny tiny diamond, some just a simple rose, or cross. My parents knew better than to clean any of their coins. They dug them up and pretty much only handled them long enough to slip them in individual coin holders and then they put them away for years to come. My parents were both older and both in ill health when they found these coins, and the only reason they found them at all was because they used to metal detect together before my mother's arthritis became crippling. My dad bought her a Garrett metal detector, a very lightweight one with all the bells and whistles and she merely went to try it out in the backyard when it registered silver. So she insisted on digging in that spot in the backyard where many of times over the past 40+ years they'd lived there they grew their garden, etc. Pretty soon, my mother became a Mole.....I swear that woman was always outside digging. My father finally had to stop her when she was digging so far underneath this gigantic old shed that he was afraid it was going to fall on top of her. When she could no longer dig, my dad wouldn't let anyone else dig up "her treasure", and even after my parents died, my sisters and I vowed not to dig that entire area up, even though we knew there were still more coins to be found there. We have since, sold the house, and the new owners have been made aware of it. They are so sweet, they told us that whatever comes from beneath that shed, if ever that shed is taken down, belongs to us. We couldn't have gotten luckier with the new owners. Bless their sweet hearts. Anyhow, what I'm trying to say is that these coins have not been cleaned, but they weren't all touching the dirt...they were protected for all these years. I'm sitting here looking at a 1923 Peace dollar that is as crystal clear and as shiny as a new quarter. No exaggeration. Now some of them obviously show some signs of dirty areas, but I consider myself to be pretty sharp and before I graded the coins, I made sure I looked at several sources online as well as in books. I graded these coins according to all of these sources combined. Meaning, the toughest criteria from all the sources combined is how I graded them. I was conservative in my grade. And I'll tell you one thing for sure.....My Peace dollars alone looked a hell of a lot better than the ones this guy had in his "bucket" he showed me. His were black and icky. Mine still have almost all of their mint luster. Without being cleaned!!! You can tell they weren't cleaned by looking at them. None of them are Mint.....they've been touched and they came from the ground. This naturally can be seen. But they look mighty pretty as far as I'm concerned. For being almost 100 years old. I hope I look that good at 100.

The 1927 Gold Coin is uncirculated. It too came from that cheesecloth, tin can in the ground My dad had it mounted in a money clip he was so proud of it, but HE NEVER USED THE MONEY CLIP.HE JUST PULLED IT OUT CAREFUL NOT TO TOUCH THE COIN AND SHOWED PEOPLE. This coin has nothing wrong with it No chips, no dings, no holes, no cracks, no smudges, no nothing It's beautiful. The man who mounted it for my father offered my dad $2500 for it and that was over 20 years ago.

Anyways, the oldest coin I have is 1804 half cent and then I have complete sets of indian head pennies dating from 1880 continually through 1908. I have more than one complete set

The Morgan Dollars range from 1879 (s and unmarked(p) to 1891 (o, and unmarked), and then again from 1896 (o and unmarked) through 1902 (o's, s's, and unmarked ones) then 1921 (s, d, unmarked) I also have 4 coins that the PCGS did get to certify for my parents and those are 18840 (and they have a PL after that - - all of them have a PL actually.they are very very shiny and perfect looking in thick plastic case with PCGS on it and some other numbers), 1883CC, (2 of those) and 1885O This dealer was willing to give me $20 a piece for these. Now granted I know very little about coins, but I tend to think that these must be worth a hell of a lot more than 20 lousy bucks. I wouldn't have sold them to him anyways, but he must've really thought I was stupid. I can't be sure, but from what I've read, doesn't the PL mean Proof Like? I could be wrong about that, but in any case, all of the coins I have are still very unused looking. They aren't perfect, but they aren't G's either. Many of my indian head pennies are RED. Not painted red. The metal is red.

If I can find a way to take some pics and post them here I will, but I just sold my laptop and am using a dinasaur right now that really bites. The keyboard amongst many other things sucks....so it's iffy that I can get a pic on this puter to post But if I can I will

Thanks again for your help guys!! You rock!!!

 

Wow BMWCaliGili, I had a horrible experience at a dealer before too but, thats probably cause im 14 and I was taking up time (I really like to browse). I feel sorry for you about the dealer and your parents passing away. Thats cool how you have such an "old" type collection. I love Peace dollars and I am starting a collection of them. Do not sell your coins in lots or bargain bins or whatever. I learned maybe a week ago that one of my Peace dollars is a VAM (Thank you Nvest) which brings up value. There are also VAMs for Morgans, too. Maybe you can post a couple of the nicer shape coins here. I believe you have authentic trade dollars because most of the time you cant tell a fake from a real coin just by looking at it. (Speedy, she said it was tested) I hope you have a real fun time goin through all the different coins you have. As for me, Im gonna go try and talk my mom into taking me to the coin store today to get that Peace dollar collection moving. I have pics of the ones I have in the album here.

 

Since it was in a clip it had to be fixed in some way and most collectors can tell when that has happened....

And Spider...I said that even experts can mess-up....

Speedy

 

the saint probably has jewelry damage, In my experience selling coins to dealers jewelry damage is worse then any cleaning, polishing, wizzing, etc.

as soon as its been put into a piece of jewelry it is "jewelry damaged"

sigh...

I had the most wonderfull $1 gold piece that had been made into a button... worth $30 bucks instead of $200

So the dealer was probably right on the saint, if i had any marks on it that came from being mounted on the money clip its worth bullion ( to most collectors )

and i am not trying to defend the guy, he sounds like a real a-hole.

 

Cali, was it tested or just looked at? If it was tested then, they are real. Thats my point Speedy

 

Spider...tests can be wrong...and when someone says they have Trade Dollars there is a BIG red flag....many trade dollars are fake...

Speedy

 

I am looking at purchasing a trade dollar from some one, what is the best way to tell if they are fake? send them to NGC or PCGS?

 

Buy it only if it is slabbed...that is what many say here on this forum....I have seen many but never have gotten any...they don't "jump out and grab me"----but many of the older collectors say to only buy slabbed Trade Dollars.

Speedy

 

Welcome to the forum!

It seems like you had a pretty sour experience with your collection. I hope it doesn't color your view, but from his perspective - 1,400 or 3,000 is a lot of money. Maybe not yours, but it could be for him, and the majority of those that come in to sell their inherited coin collection... it is for me, and I do pretty well for myself. I think you mentioned that you own a business yourself (with your husband) so you know what it's like to exist on the margin. if you spend 3,000 on your goods, you need to turn that around for 3,300 to realize a 10% profit - and then you have volume issues.

I'm not justifying his behavior - not in the slightest - but if he has a shop, and makes a living at it, chances are better than not that he knows quite a bit about his trade. It's not an absolute, but it's a safe bet.

Don't take this wrong, but it seems to me that you were walking into a situation in which you know very little, or less than the other guy, about the subject matter at hand - and it sounds like you found that a little intimidating. I don't mean that negative at all, in my opinion you were doing the right thing by talking to someone who deals in the business - but this guy you were talking to goes through this eight or nine times a month, I would bet... 90% of the people in your shoes expect to retire on that suitcase you wheeled into his shop, and he has to be in the unfortunate position to explain that just is not going to happen.

One more thing to keep in mind - you said you walked into a somewhat busy small shop, and you weren't looking to buy or sell. Every minute he's talking to you, is a minute he's not working with someone. Maybe you came at his peak business hours, and he does this for a living - who knows? he may feed children on dealings with those people in his shop. If you went back in a slower time, you may find a completely different person behind that counter.

 

Hi, and welcome to the forum.

 

I always wait for things to be slow before i chat with my local coinshop owner, thats when you can get good deals and really see "whats new"

 

Definitely - and if you can get to know him a bit by chatting as you browse, many dealers throw in extra incentives if you're a return customer. For instance, the dealer I go to regularly now knows me rather well. I am collecting Canadian cents, and when I went to his shop today, he immediately went to his back room and pulled out four bags full of Canadian cents, which I went through, and sorted them by decade, and bagged them for him. When I left with the few coins I needed today for my collection, he threw in an XF 1913 British one penny coin that the World Book value guide listed as $8.00, but that he didn't want to try to sell!

Another thing I'd advise, although I'm not as knowledgable as some is: when you are looking for appraisal of items, or ESPECIALLY to sell them, do so in increments. Instead of bringing in EVERYTHING at once if you have a very large collection, bring it in maybe 1/4 at a time. Then your local dealer may have more time to spend on each coin, and he may be willing to pay a little more for it. One of my friends from Michigan had a trunkfull of old silver coins and wheat cents and such, and he used to bring in about 1-2 Ziplock baggies full each week to the dealer, who gave him really good deals he said and was able to spend more time with him individually on his coins.

And then there's the inevitable question of going at the opportune time, and I think that's been addressed well. Going when it's slower provides more time for appraisal, and the dealer can focus his/her attention more astutely on YOU.

Anyway, this is what I've found to be true for me. Who knows, maybe this guy just is a crummy guy! I hope everything works out better for you in the future, and if my suggestions or comments helped, I'm glad I could do so!

~AJ

 

I have been dealing with Vince at Fremont coin for many years. As a newbie to the numismatic world, I have had nothing short of an awesome expdrience when dealing with Vince and Barbera. I Have spent countless hours in their quant shop just talking coins. Vince loves his craft and is a true Numismatic. I feel fortunate that Vince shares his love of coin collecting with me.


Tom

 

This is an 8 year old post which almost had me going. Right up to the Gold Susan B. Anthony!

That one statement alone, invalidates the entire post which was obviously done by someone who has no idea about numismatics.

Of course, in 2005, gold was at $435 an ounce and silver was sitting at $7.10

 

I think that is the longest post I have ever seen. I wonder if the store owner was just trying to get her to leave. Don't mean to offend but my read of the post is that the lady carries a little ego herself so maybe it was just two people that were rubbing each other the wrong way.