Hi All, I am a novice, so please excuse my querry. I have a 1909 Indian Head Coin, Philadelphia Mint, and the reverse side (wreath) is 180 degrees, or upside-down from the front (or vice-versa if you will). The coin is in very good condition, and I am wondering if it is an error or if it is a counterfeit. Regerdless, I do not expect to pay off my mortgage with it, but I would really appreciate some expertise. Many thanks.
All US coins have that 180 degree orientation. So, if you flip the coin over side to side the reverse will be upside down.
Welcome to CoinTalk, Gaw. Where do you live? In Great Britain and Canada coins have what we call a "medal turn" and in the US coin have what we call a "coin turn". If you hold your coin by the edges at the 3:00 and 9:00 position with the obverse facing you upright and flip it over and the reverse is upright it has a "coin turn". If the reverse is up-side-down it has a "medal turn". It it is a US coin and it has a medal turn the reverse is rotated 180 degrees and would be a collectible error.
It is a medal turn Hi Hobo, Thanks for your info. I was not very clear in my description, and you expressed yourself eloquently. Indeed, if I hold the coin by the edges at the 3:00 and 9:00 position, as you suggested, with the obverse facing me upright and flip it over, the reverse is up-side-down, meaning that, according to your description, it is a "medal turn." This would make it a collectible error (unless it is counterfeit). I was not very clear in my description, so I will try to take a picture holding the coin to a mirror, showing that the back is upside-down from the front (or vice versa). I live in Canada, and I received this coin inserted in a Joe Malone 1909 mint baseball card - I assume as part and parcel of the overall item. Are you interested in a photo? The penny has at least two letters from the "Liberty" on the headdress, so I assume it is in very good condition. Thanks for your understanding, Hobo, and for your interest - cheers, Gawasbay
Hi CamaroDMD, Thanks for your reply. I was not very clear in my description. When I hold the coin by the edges at the 3:00 and 9:00 position, with the obverse facing me upright and flip it over, the reverse is up-side-down. Does this make it is a "medal turn" and make it more collectible? Thanks again for your info, em16.1
Yes, it sounds like it's an error. You said you live in Canada, I believe coins there have metal turn normally (I could be wrong though). So, you could also compare it to that. But, US coins do not have metal turn...when they do it is caused by a rotated die and is more collectible.
Medal turn 1909 Indian Head Thanks for all of your help - I will try to get a picture up. Coins in Canada are minted the same as in the US, so when I saw that the back of this penny was 90 degrees, or upside-down from the front, I did a double take. As CamaroDMD informed me, it is likely caused by a rotated die. The coin is also reddish - don't know if this means anything - again, I will try to get a picture up. I guess now I will have to find out its approx. value. Cheers, all, and thanks again - GB
this is pretty interesting. not trying to be the downer or anything, but, could it be a counterfeit from a country with medal turn coins that just didnt know any better to change it. i'm not saying it is, but that could be easily overlooked by counterfeiters. And that was just my thought when reading this thread. we need to see pics though.
