CNG Triton XXIV Results

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Al Kowsky, Jan 19, 2021.

  1. Al Kowsky

    Al Kowsky Well-Known Member

    There were so many early Greek gold coins I'm surprised you didn't score one o_O.
     
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  3. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    Congratulations. That is a nice globe sitter. Mine is the eagle on an altar (nowhere near as nice but RD1 rather than RD10). Triton VI sold a very nice one with good provenance for less than I thought it was worth and there have been others over the years in their lesser sales. I guess few people care about this series. There is also a version on thunderbolt which I don't have either.
    rj4755fd2939.jpg
     
  4. AussieCollector

    AussieCollector Moderator Moderator

    That's a beauty.

    But not worth $13K (imho)
     
  5. panzerman

    panzerman Well-Known Member

    Agreed/ I was willing to go 3K. I wanted not to get into bidding wars, since I have some others picked out in Heritage event/ tonite/ Friday.
    John
     
  6. kazuma78

    kazuma78 Supporter! Supporter

    Hekte? That one is sweet.
     
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  7. panzerman

    panzerman Well-Known Member

    Yes, a Hekte from Phokaia circa 625-550BC.
     
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  8. Romancollector

    Romancollector Well-Known Member

    Did anyone have success with Heritage? I certainly did not.

    Some of the prices were absolutely absurd. For example, the Augustus aureus with the Caius and Lucius reverse hammering for $34,800 (incl. the buyer's fee). I've seen plenty of nicer examples hammer for far less (even 1/4 of the amount). Perhaps, bidders were aware of a hidden provenance that wasn't included in the listing??? :eek:
     
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  9. panzerman

    panzerman Well-Known Member

    That Augustus Aureus would have been a CNG Very Fine/ or Fine+/ seems more $$$ then brains......
     
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  10. savitale

    savitale Well-Known Member

    I had one nice Greek coin picked out at Triton. After much research I decided that four times estimate was a strong price for the coin, and I came mentally prepared to go to five times. I got my arse handed to me. Not even close.

    I don't have the years of experience that some do, so I can't say if this is a one-off, the new normal, or business as usual.
     
  11. kazuma78

    kazuma78 Supporter! Supporter

    The longer it goes on, the more of the "new normal" it becomes. Unfortunately, the insanity seems to have been going on for almost a year now. As I said before, at this pace, patience seems to be the name of the game. Wait long enough and you'll get something "reasonable". After these losses, I'm a little frustrated I didn't go higher on a couple lots late last year. They would have been considered bargains based on the Triton and Heritage sales this week.
     
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  12. FrizzyAntoine

    FrizzyAntoine Well-Known Member

    I too feel like waiting is probably the best option at this point. An influx of new interest from people stuck at home due to Covid, coupled with spare cash for many middle & upper-middle class collectors who aren't able to spend on parties/eating out/vacations at the moment has definitely driven prices up 20-30% on average from what I've seen. And of course some of the folks who may have otherwise paid more at retail/coin shows might be finding auctions for the first time and are willing to pay closer to retail due to their experience with that side of the hobby.

    I personally think the situation will change over the course of this year and into the next, with prices coming back to 2018/2019 levels in the near future. For starters, Triton and the other January auctions are always crazy, with stratospheric prices. I was unsuccessful on 9 lots in triton, but even then I managed to be underbidder on 4 and felt the hammers were still within reason for a few of them. Most of the other feature auctions late last year were far more reasonable, and seemed to be in line with regular feature-auction prices. I know I was able to win something or other at nearly all of them (and I really hate overpaying, it's why I almost never buy retail either!) which I think signals prices in March-May will be much more in line with reasonable expectations, and that January is more likely to be an outlier, as usual.

    As far as Heritage is concerned prices there until ~2019 used to tend on the low end for nicer coins, and now it's the opposite. This seems to be stemming moreso from an influx of new/inexperienced US collectors who don't quite understand the market prices for ancients yet, and are willing to spend far more than a seasoned collector in some cases because ancients seem like better value than similarly priced US coins. And of course there's bound to be some level of "investment" going on, however ill-advised that may be. I haven't seen nearly as much of the same behaviour in the more established Ancients-specific auctions where they sell only unslabbed coins. And, unless siginificantly more wealthy US collectors enter the hobby, I don't really see who these people are going to be able to resell to at those prices 10-20 years from now (I know I'm never paying that much, I'm sure many others here feel the same), but I suppose we'll have to wait and see.
     
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  13. IMP Shogun

    IMP Shogun Well-Known Member

    I agree, to an extent.

    There are a lot of people on lockdown that will not focus as much of their budget on coins when it's over. I agree there should be a significant correction in hobby's that do well in isolation. However, there is also a lot of money being printed and being created a lot faster than "new" ancient coins are found.
     
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  14. savitale

    savitale Well-Known Member

    I think this has a lot to do with it. Tesla stock alone has created $674 Billion in new "wealth" in just the past year. If you were lucky enough to get a piece of that action, you might have millions of dollars that just fell in your lap. If I were so fortunate, a couple of those Triton lots would have come home to me, at any cost.
     
  15. DonnaML

    DonnaML Well-Known Member

    I think the prices are equally jaw-dropping on CNG's new retail price list, their "Winter 2021 Classical Numismatic Review" that seems to have gone online last night:

    "The Winter 2021 edition of the Classical Numismatic Review is now available for all customers. Please enjoy our premier selection of 233 quality ancient, world, and British coins. This Review features an impressive offering of rare and high-grade Ptolemaic coins, along with an excellent introductory article on collecting the coins of this famous Hellenistic kingdom by David Michaels."

    A helpful article, by the way.

    One can view the catalog at https://issuu.com/cngcoins/docs/cng_cnr_01-2021?fr=sYzJjNjIwNDkyNDU, or see the coins online at https://cngcoins.com/Search.aspx?IS...=1&dd_ITEM_ADD_DATE=7&yyyy_ITEM_ADD_DATE=2021

    Just scrolling through what they're offering on the retail side, there's hardly anything less than about $1,000 -- a line I have yet to cross -- with the highest price the $95,000 asked for another example of the Antony & Cleopatra from Antioch.

    The prices appear high to me even for coins I'm familiar with. Among the small number of Roman Republican coins, the examples of types I already have don't seem that much nicer than mine, but the prices are multiples of what I paid within the last year. All of that is fine if people are willing and able to pay those prices. I'm not able, never mind willing. But if I admit that if I were wealthy and spending a few thousand dollars on a coin meant nothing to me, I suppose it might be easier simply to pay these prices than to bid at an auction, or to hunt through VCoins for similar coins at retail for lower prices.

    For anyone interested, the CNG Coin Shop is now also offering another group of Roman coins portraying empresses and other women, the so-called "Empresses Collection." See https://cngcoins.com/Coins.aspx?CATEGORY_ID=6843&VIEW_TYPE=0. The coins are mostly in great condition, but are almost all too rich for my blood. Again, the prices seem a bit high to me for some of the coins. (For instance: $575 for an example, which doesn't look all that special to me, of the Faustina II SAECVLI FELICIT with the infant Commodus and his twin on the reverse.) I did buy one coin already (probably one of the two or three least expensive) but won't identify it until I receive it.

    Fortunately, the explosion in prices in the auction sector of the ancient coin market doesn't yet seem to have carried over to most of the retail sector. Although I could name a seller or two that routinely asks prices even higher than these.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2021
  16. 1934 Wreath Crown

    1934 Wreath Crown Well-Known Member

    This seems to be a common factor for most major auction houses in the US. I was looking at a Tetradrachm estimated at $10-15,000. Sold for an eye-watering $84,000.

    Luckily I had a couple of coins I was selling with them. One of them sold for almost 4 times what I paid in September 2020, plus BP:D.

    @DonnaML I looked at the CNG Winter 2021 very briefly. Everything listed was so over-the-top I didn't bother to browse any further.
     
  17. pprp

    pprp Well-Known Member

    How wonderful to start my day opening their email with the CNR to discover that 2 of their front pieces are the ones I lost in ROMA XX and were bought by them to be resold.
     
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  18. savitale

    savitale Well-Known Member

    It shows you have a good eye.
     
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  19. Blake Davis

    Blake Davis Well-Known Member

    I have noticed how beautiful these are but never understood why prices are so low - I thought perhaps they were common
     
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  20. Blake Davis

    Blake Davis Well-Known Member

    Shows the complete dominance of condition over rarity - but rarity is an almost bizarre concept in ancient coins where even a collector of modest means can own a coin for which only a handful of examples exist.

    And oddly enough I have noticed what appears to be a moderating of prices for nonpremium coins - but this more likely wishful thinking!
     
  21. Tejas

    Tejas Well-Known Member

    I was interested in the unofficial/imitative solidus below from the Triton auction. The very reasonable estimate was USD 750,-, but the coin went for USD 4250,-. My bid was 1450, which still is what it would be worth to me.

    My guess is that Covid-19 travel restrictions have left many people with extra cash, to spend on things like coins.

    And of course, the Federal Reserve "printed" something like 3000 billion new dollars last year. The biggest increase in money supply in history. The money has to go somewhere :)

    Screenshot 2021-01-23 at 13.52.58.png
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2021
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