Tom, the same situation occurs on gemology sites. How do I clean my jewel is a question that occurs there as often as coin cleaning does here. Put a certain group of gemstones in an ultrasonic bath and they will shatter, use a buffer too close to some and the heat will change their color or clarity. People think diamonds are forever. Nope, they crack or chip easier than many cheap semiprecious stones. Detergents will breakdown the oils in customary emeralds, rendering them lifeless. A brown zircon will turn red or diamond clear from the heat of a couple of matches or a fast buffer wheel. Cleaning them is not for the amateur. Sure, if one wishes to educate themselves and determines which situations will allow what type of cleaning. This is different than someone saying "here is a photo of my red gem and my friend has a red gem and he did this, so can I" leads to the type of answers here. What we answer remains in archives and can be googled years from now. So as not to speak for others ~ I want my answers to be specific to a certain situation and not a " catch all". A gemstone will last longer than most coins, so gemologists are as pedantic ( or more so) as coin collectors or dealers. They aren't trying to hinder, they are trying to help. Jim
OK keep it civilized, there is no need for any kind of personal attacks. If it strays of topic again the thread will be shut.
I'm not certain we need such entertainment. Several approaches have been tried by a variety of people at this point to communicate to this individual and instead of dialog we seem to be getting flack. I'm not really in a good enough mood to continue this conversation in the face of such dogmatic bluster. If Doug and Mike can't seem to communicate here with this fellow, what chance do I have? Maybe Paul's approach to people will have more success, or Hobo's analytical and thorough kind of postings. Ruben
Tom, It seems as though you started this thread with a preconceived notion of how to clean coins and then got rather perturbed when others didn't agree with the notion you were trying to set forth. The guys here are worldly, knowledgeable and at times strong in their opinions which I believe you take as a "put down" or having someone "look down their nose at you". Don't take it that way Tom, rather, take in the knowledge these fellows are trying to impart. In short, don't take things so seriously. As for the "jibes" and "remarks", I assure you it is only done in good fun and by no means is meant as an attack on you. :smile
If it was pre-conceived, it was based on, as I started out saying, my good friend's 40 plus years of experience in the field. I've since read much information verifying that it can be and is done successfuly pretty routinely,which is what I suspected, but looking for further verfication. If oyu call that a pre-conceived notion, then, perhaps it is, but, it certainly seems many have their own notions as well, which should form the basis of an "accuracy oriented" discussion. I guess "cleaning" was the wrong word. I was told I had the "jargon" wrong. I should have chosen "conserve" or "not harshly" as a term, then perhaps that would have steered the issue in a more "non-entertaining" fashion, but it was what it was. My apologies for not knowing the particular "jargon" as I said, I was new (my buddy wasn't), and I was trying to reference his knowledge and looked for a definate "right or wrong". Perhaps that was another mistake on my part. I assumed I could get factual verification, one way or the other, and obviously that failed miserably. I encountered much sarcasm very early on and only started returning it when it seemed any points I was trying to make were well lost. Like I said. I did finally get that verifcation and have since tested the theories (as well as a few others), and ma comfortable thinking what I think, all points considered. That obviously stands in contrast with the group here, (which obviously stands in contrast to what I was trying to verify), which left me with the decision for myself which sources were correct, factual, which were not, and which were simply opinions. I've made that decision and I'll live with it. I will continue to use this blog for information, but for more of a reference than accuracy. Thank you for your response.
Glad you noted a brand name. If you had just said a scouring pad I would have mentioned how different some are. Many of those could be abrasive you know. :smile As to Lighter fluid, it would pay to purchase some and note the formulae noted on the can. Lighter Fluids as well as Ketchup, gasolene for your car, Fingernail polish remover, etc are all manufactured products. With very, very few exceptions you can find out EXACTLY what is in those. Some products lists most or all of the substances in thier products but not the percentages. That is due to a proprietary system so that others can not copy thier product exactly. To sum up the lighter fluid situation, the one used may work and many, many others may ruin coins. To just say Lighter Fluid is just to incomplete for a true test and/or examination. On another note on TV the other day someone was explaining now Molases works on removing verdigris and/or other substances from metals. Shown was a tool that was supposed to be covered with rust. After several days in Molases, it looked like brand new. So now it's to the grocery store for molases to clean all my coins.
Well, its really simpler than that. You shouldn't clean your coins. Your a novice and any other advise would be wreckless. People are trying to do you a favor here and save you some heartache. Don't pull on SUperman's cape. Don't spit into the wind, you don't pull the mask of the ole Long Ranger and you don't clean your coins. Everyone here has given you variations of the same answer. And this is not the first time cointalk has been around the block on this topic. But here are some facts to consider. First, I doubt you could tell if a coin was cleaned, cleaned harshly, or done professionally, or never done at all. That means you can't judge the outcome of your work. You would have no clue as to whether you properly conserved your coin or destroyed it. Secondly, Conservation is done for a reason. Either there is some damage to a valuable piece (verdis), it might have awful black or striped toning, or like Jim, you just like to experiment with junk coins to gain the experience. However, any coin is best never cleaned if it remains in an reasonably good condition. ALL CLEANING removes part of the surface of the coin. That surface might also be oxidized and ugly to the point where conservation is warranted. Even Leonardo's "Last Supper" has had conservation. But that needs to be an educated decision and some consultation is worth having before attempting it. You mentioned that dealers have "coin presses". If your friend told you this, 40 years or not in the hobby, he is wrong to the point of absurdity. According to Zane, some of the TPG and highest level dealers do dip coins, semi-regularly. Its not a great practice, even for those with broadly recognized expertise in the matter. Almost NO DEALERS dip coins regularly and the trend is going way down since in the 21st century we've learned just how much damage this does to the coins and even today we have many many collectors like Paul who love toned coins. But most of all, your under the misconception that this is a simple thing to learn to do well, and can be picked up quickly. I hate to break it to you, but it is not either an easy body of knowledge to master, nor can it be picked up in a few minutes on Coin Talk. If your going to clean your coins, your going to lose a lot of nice specimens along the way, without doubt. As Spock said, "Clean in hast, regret it at leisure." There are no secret handshakes going on here. People are trying to protect you from a grievous error. Lets try this, since your so confident in this matter. Which of these coins have been damaged by cleaning I'll tell you this much. Most of the folks trying to help you here, people you have been biting in the hand, would know with a quick examination. Ruben
I would guess the Columbian exposition coin, looks washed out and blothchy, but that's just my best guess.
The "coin presses" reference I was simply repeating from someone in this same post (humor intended no doubt). You have dubbed yourselves the coin Messiah's "Supermen". I was just trying to learn, still am, always will be.
I appreciate that. It confused a bunch of people here and didn't read well. I got a half dozen private messages asking me what a coin press was. Best I could say is that it is a machine that stamps out coins. Trust me on this Tom, I aint no Messiah or even particularly expert about coins compared to the big hitters around here like Doug, Lead, Jim, Hobo, and Zane....among others. Then we have guys who are near experts in their areas like Cladking, Handsome Toad, Spock, Scott, Arizon Jack, Leigh ... Anyway, take a second guess. Ruben
I believe it is either the 1915 or the 1955 hard for me tell without diff angles....old eye syndrome gawd i hope im right
