Hi, I'm new to US coins. Love this forum. I usually collect ancient roman Imperials. I just won this 1884 O VAM Morgan on eBay. Was the only bidder so I'm a bit worried I paid too much. ($89.99) Coin has other other attributes as well. Dealer grades it MS65 has 100% POS 4600+ feedback. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&item=350173705713 Thanks for any input....
Man, I hate to have to be the one to say this, but I don't think you got a good deal. What you got was a (over)hyped VAM that's been (likely) cleaned and is now retoning, IMO. A few pieces of advice/tidbits of information: Values for VAMS are overblown. I've yet to see an accurate price guide, and it is my understanding that the market for these has done even worse than the overall coin market recently. Be very careful in valuating these coins. Most collectors prefer to cherrypick, this partially explains the preceding paragraph, but is also evidence why this "r6" coin didn't fetch more money. Rarities for VAMS are similarly overblown. If I had a dollar for every R6 coin that magically appeared as an R5 or R4, I'd be a rich man. I know this is not an easy message to digest, and I'm sorry to have to break it to you. Respectfully...Mike p.s. Why do you think it was a good enough deal to purchase at that level?
I will start by saying that I know absolutely nothing about VAM's and don't want to. They just don't interest me. However, this coin has a nice strike for an "O" mint Morgan. I like the luster and the color, but I don't agree with the MS65 grade. There is a large mark below the curls where the jawline ends that will keep this coin at MS64 maximum. I know this seller has 100% positive feedback but the huge sales pitch and juiced photos are concerning to me for raw coins. All in all though, I like the coin as long as the VAM's he are claiming are real on the coin.
p.s. on the bright side, the seller has a fair return policy, so when you get the coin if you don't like it, then all you're out is S&H two ways.
Yes the VAM (s), return policy and the sellers feedback is what made me go ahead and bid on this coin. Plus I looked close...super nice strike..full feathers nice hair and details. And as I saw it, no wear visable on any high points. Also I bought it figuring a MS64 grade at the very best. If I keep it I'll send it in to PCGS for grading through a local dealer.
Lehigh: I don't see any cartwheel luster. The tilted photos don't show this and they should. Especially on a Morgan like this with no obvious wear. I checked this seller's other listings and I would go so far to say every single coin he has for sale looks cleaned. The have no cartwheel luster whatsoever. He is selling a dead, overdipped 1893 O for $5,500.00 OBO. Most of his coins are in bottom level slabs (no-namers). I have sent back coins before. I hate doing so, but I would if I were you. How will you feel if it comes back "genuine" only from PCGS. I agree with Mike about the VAM's. No interest in them and I don't think they are popular. There are too many Morgans to keep track of VAM's-just my opinion, but more powere to you if you like them. Completing a full "normal" set is enough of a LIFETIME chore. Just my mild mannered, easy going, non-opinionated peacemaking opinion here. LOL
Thanks for all the info guys. I'll have a local coin dealer look at it and tell me his opinion on if its been cleaned, and any possible VAM value. I did get ripped BAD on a whizzed 1903 S Morgan...with no return policy. Mostly I've been buying DMPL Morgans...Have some pretty nice ones so far. Long term goal is to collect as many DMPL / PL Morgans as I can afford.
OK, I didn't know Mike was equating dipping with cleaning. I agree with dipped and retoned. Evaluating luster from juiced pics is next to impossible. But I will buy that this coin is overdipped. I would pass simply because of the photos and hype, but the OP already bought the coin. I was looking on the bright side. It does have a good strike for an "O" mint Morgan. Again, I know nothing about VAM's.
I don't know that he is, but he can speak for himself. In my opinion that coin has been cleaned with a cloth and since then is re-toning. What's more, I doubt it would ever make into an NGC or PCGS slab because of the scratches on the reverse. I would definitely send that coin back.
Given the pics, it is hard for me to say if it was an overdipping or a wipe. FWIW, that's why I chose the word "cleaned" and didn't try and describe it differently. Regardless, the coin's luster appears to have been impared by this act -- which is what led me to say what I did.
p.s. when a seller uses very large colored fonts, like the auction linked in this thread, chances are they are trying to pull the wool over your eyes. Always be wary of such auctions.
But you could have if you just thought about it for a minute. There is plenty of luster in a few spots, but only a few spots. A dip would that destroyed the luster on the majority of the coin would have destroyed it everywhere. Whereas a cleaning with a cloth would leave luster in a few protected areas
I did think about it, GDJMSP, and after looking at the photos again this afternoon, I stand by what I wrote -- I'm not sure just what's going on with this coin, but it appears to me to have been overdipped and/or wiped and the photos aren't good enough for me to put my finger on which it is. So, I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one -- which is perfectly OK with me.
I don't like the part. A coin can only be 1 VAM or another. Evidently he is unsure on the process. Truthfully, I can not from the photos determine if it is 5B or not. The clash is not apparent to me. So check it carefully . Rarity does not have a large effect on price if the coin isn't desired. 1884-O VAM 5B isn't a VAMworld top 100, so I would think the premium would maybe be 10-20% at most, if it is a 5B. Jim
