Fresh from Sarasota- GTG 5$ Indian

That is an interesting question. I have looked at many coins, and have purchased a few, in top TPG slabs that I believed would have profited from a removal of dirt and/or other encrustations.

But, for the life of me I cannot see any upside for the TPG doing it, even if they went to the time, trouble and expense of seeking and obtaining the submitter's approval. Here's my reasoning, feel free to poke holes:

1) At least NGC and maybe others sell a separate conservation service. Why would they undercut that source of revenues?
2) The normal submission/return cycle would be delayed if, during normal grading and encapsulation, they had to stop the process and communicate to gain permission to clean a coin. As you can imagine, this could entail a complicated set of exchanges.
3) Liability issues: TPG would have to get a liability waiver in order to do anything to the coin because as we all know; you don't know what's under "dirt" until it is removed and coins can be damaged even by responsible and knowledgeable conservation. I can easily see some people making claims for diminution of a coin's value unless extensive disclaimers and liability exclusions were inked, all occurring during what would otherwise be a straight-forward grading and encapsulation process.

Now, I could see the TPGs, during a normal grading process, communicating to the owner that they believe the coin would benefit from a conservation and then, with the owner's concurrence, shifting the coin over to their conservation service with it's higher fees, longer process time, and waivers/exclusions. But my impression is that this is already occurring at least to some degree. I don't have any experience submitting coins, so I readily admit ignorance.

And finally, if the submitter doesn't like the dirt, why doesn't he remove it before he submits the coin to the TPG? We all know why so don't beat me up - this is more of a rhetorical question.

@Insider would you amplify your meaning? Are you saying the top 2 (or 3 or 4) TPGs already remove dirt from coins submitted for normal processing, not the conservation service?

 

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That’s exactly what NGC does if they believe a coin should be conserved.

 

They send you an e-mail which you must respond to within 24 hours if you want the coin to be conserved, and the standard conservation fee is $25.

I submitted a 1943-D Jefferson Nickel that had some lacquer on it that I thought was just toning. They sent me an e-mail, I responded and told them to conserve it, and they dipped the coin an made it bright white, but it also graded MS67 6FS, so I was very happy.

 

Grading Indians is like a box of chocolate...

Thanks to all for posting their personal opinions.

I disagree in this case with the grade of NGC.
It‘s a MS61.

My submission includes 5 half eagles and two Eagles. All of them are Indians.
On 5 coins I nailed it, but 2 coins are undergraded in my eyes.

I will show you the second one in another GTG the other day.

 

Was close I agree it has been under-graded by at least a few points congratulations to the only member who got it right.

 

Late to the game. 61? OK. Had the slab said 58, 62, or 63, I also would have said, "OK." These are hard enough to grade in person, harder with really good pictures. This is not meant as a dig at the OP, but I wouldn't classify the pictures given as "really good." I suppose I could study a pile of Heritage pictures (theirs are good, but not really good) for a while to see if that would help me make sense of the grade, but the coin needs more light hitting it such that we can see the surfaces better.

 

Publius2, posted: "That is an interesting question. I have looked at many coins, and have purchased a few, in top TPG slabs that I believed would have profited from a removal of dirt and/or other encrustations.

But, for the life of me I cannot see any upside for the TPG doing it, even if they went to the time, trouble and expense of seeking and obtaining the submitter's approval. Here's my reasoning, feel free to poke holes:

1) At least NGC and maybe others sell a separate conservation service. Why would they undercut that source of revenues?

Customer relations.


2) The normal submission/return cycle would be delayed if, during normal grading and encapsulation, they had to stop the process and communicate to gain permission to clean a coin. As you can imagine, this could entail a complicated set of exchanges.

Actually, it only takes a quick phone call.

3) Liability issues: [This is the big one] TPG would have to get a liability waiver in order to do anything to the coin because as we all know; you don't know what's under "dirt" until it is removed and coins can be damaged even by responsible and knowledgeable conservation. I can easily see some people making claims for diminution of a coin's value unless extensive disclaimers and liability exclusions were inked, all occurring during what would otherwise be a straight-forward grading and encapsulation process.

Now, I could see the TPGs, during a normal grading process, communicating to the owner that they believe the coin would benefit from a conservation and then, with the owner's concurrence, shifting the coin over to their conservation service with it's higher fees, longer process time, and waivers/exclusions. But my impression is that this is already occurring at least to some degree. I don't have any experience submitting coins, so I readily admit ignorance.

It is.

And finally, if the submitter doesn't like the dirt, why doesn't he remove it before he submits the coin to the TPG? We all know why so don't beat me up - this is more of a rhetorical question.

Some are afraid to touch their coins.

@Insider would you amplify your meaning? Are you saying the top 2 (or 3 or 4) TPGs already remove dirt from coins submitted for normal processing, not the conservation service?[/QUOTE]

No, they charge for conservation.

 

Thanks, @Insider . I appreciate the education.