Cherrypicking is a term used in numismatics to describe the event of knowingly seeking and purchasing a numismatic item from a dealer or seller for a value much less than what should be attributed to the item. The item may be a variety or error that is unattributed and would otherwise sell for a premium if discovered. Not all varieties or errors command higher prices. Those that do not command higher prices would probably, by most accounts, not be considered cherrypicking, but rather a lucky find. Those coins that do command higher prices usually bring the most excitement. A quick example of cherrypicking would be to find an 1964 proof accented hair Kennedy half dollar and purchase it for the price of a regular 1964 proof. Using the 2008 Redbook as a quick reference, the difference between the two is a $9 coin vs. a $30 coin. Cherrypicking does not necessarily have to do with finding a variety or error. It could be as simple as buying a Lincoln cent binder with an 09 S VDB in the wrong spot unbeknown to the seller, but a terrific find for you (I know someone who this has happened to) or digging through a box of common date IHC and finding an 09S, but purchasing it as an 09 (I also know someone who this has happened to). Cherrypicking is a practice that has long been in numismatics or any other hobby for that matter. Not everyone agrees with this practice, but many collectors believe the quote, "To the Victor, goes the Spoils." I guess Cherrypicking can go both ways. There are many ethical issues that arise when this happens. There are those that believe that individuals who have a greater understanding of numismatics should have an ethical courtesy to disclose to those who do not, when a error or variety is found. Early in my numismatic learnings, I bet I have been cherrypicked a few times by dealers and other collectors alike. Others believe that it is not their fault that a person is not educated about a coin or item and should not have to disclose their find to the seller. It is the seller's responsibility to know what he/she has. I am not here to defend either one, but simply to mention both sides of the coin (excuse the pun). Now on to my story..... these past two days I have been working with a buddy of mine at our local coin show. What a great weekend. Business was brisk and steady. There were about 20-25 dealers set up with a great variety of stuff. On Saturday, I did not have much time to look around but caught up with an old friend/dealer who sat next to us. He was trying to get out of coin collecting all together and had some terrific coins for some great prices. I really got to work on completing my UNC Washington quarter set. Last night I was reading an article in numismatic news about the Adams mule medal that was found. A mule is a coin or medal that is minted with the obverse of one coin and the reverse of another. This could be done on purpose or without knowledge. The Adams mule has the obverse of the 2007 Abagail Adams medal and the reverse of the 2008 Louisa Adams medal. Although I don't collect these, I always find these types of errors interesting. Whenever I read about an error or variety that is found, I always keep an eye out for them when I am at a show. Today (Sunday), started off very slow (probably due to church) and I got to look around a bit. There are a few dealers who I will visit every year because either I know them and have dealt with them before or they are highly regarded in the business. So this morning I set out with more Washington quarters in mind and visited a dealer who is very well known and highly respected in the area. I have known him for a few years and later found out that he was the cousin of the guy I was working with. At a glance, I see a display case that had a bunch of First Spouse medals in it and decided to mosey on over and see if I could find the mule. So I am looking around and no sooner than I could catch my breath, but there is was.... The Adams mule!!! What was even more incredible was that there were two of them!!!!! So I nonchalantly purchased both along with a third (to look non-suspecting) and ran back to my table. Terribly excited that I had just cherrypicked the newly discovered mule, I was revealing in my glory. Then guilt started to set in. If there is one thing that I am known for, it is my brutal honesty. I'm the type of guy who finds a cherrypick, then brings it to the dealer's attention to let them know what they have. Then they usually mark it up a ton and try to sell it to me..... that is usually how it goes. So there I am, feeling guilty and the guy next to me asks me what's up? So I tell him my story and he is so excited for me. He told me not to worry and that this dealer would be happy for me too since he has been in the business for a long time and likes to see stuff like that. Then he asks to see the medals because he never heard of this mule. It was at this moment that I realized when I got them out that I had completely mistaken the two medals that I bought for the mules!!!! I couldn't believe it. Now my delight turns to disgust as I realized that I just threw $14 out the window. Here I was thinking that $14, although expensive for the normal medals, was an absolute steal for the mules. In the end, I just chuckled and chalked it up to experience. This is not the first time this has happened to me, and I am sure it won't be the last. There is no moral to the story, but rather a lesson to be learned..... when a potential cherrypick is found... take a deep breath and really look over the coin to make sure what you have is the item in question. I think it is ok to be proud of yourself. Cherrypicking is a culmination of all your studying about a particular item or coin. It is the end result of a lot of time and hard work and really getting to know your stuff. Call me crazy, but cherrypicking a dealer is part of the game. I think dealers know this. The guy I worked for admits that there is no possible way for him to know every little thing about every coin. He actually welcomes the thought of someone finding a "cherry". But I also believe that cherrypicking an unknowing person (a customer) is bad ethics and should not be condoned. It is our responsibility to inform and educate those who are less educated and bring a bit of ethics to the hobby. Joe
My opinion, but I think it depends on who you are dealing with. For example, if I'm buying from a dealer, someone that I expect to know more about coins than I do then I wouldn't say anything. If I'm dealing with my grandmother or a friend, or even a friend of a friend, I would probably make them aware of what they had, hoping for some kind of middle ground. I understand what you are saying tho, I think we are all looking for the ultimate deal. Fred
Cherrypicking to me just means looking very carefully through a pile of coins for anything wanted, needed or would like to have. Doesn't have to be special, an error, expensive, etc.
Without saying which side of the fence I'm sitting on I'll just say there are cherrypickers and there are cherrypickees. Cherrypicking someone else is fun; being cherrypicked is not so much fun.
cherrypicking is about having that eye for detail. The information is out there, if the seller wanted to gain the knowledge they would if they cared enough. To be cherrypicked is to think to one's self, gee good job on him, now I need to learn this so it never happens again.
My dealer has told me he does not mind cherry pickers - he said the simple fact is they keep coming back and buying more coins. I still think the 1806 over inverted 6 I got from them was miss attributed. Anyway he has talked about at least one variety discovered in his shop.
I think you're pushing it a bit much. Coins are very unique, non-commodity items. The person who knows more about the item should naturally benefit from his connoisseurship. You didn't take advantage of a weak old lady!
Three quick stories. 1. I wanted a $1 gold Indian Princess Head, Large Head (1856-1889) for my type set. For an 1862 at a local show (30-50 dealers) already slabbed NGC AU-58, perfect for what I needed. Bought it for greysheet bid (must have been something the dealer was having a hard time selling). Got it home and someone told me to check it out in Breen's Encyclopedia. Turned out to be a DDO. Worth about 50% more based on the only auction record I could find. This was NOT a cherrypick since I didn't know what I was getting. Just pure luck. 2. MFD was sitting next to a dealer (same show; different time) who bought a partial set of Mercs from a customer who didn't know what he had. Turns out the 1942 was a 1942/1. The dealer didn't tell the customer. THAT'S a cherrypick. And IMO that dealer should have every penalty appropriate piled on him. 3. I went to a B&M dealer who showed me a nice silver 3-cent. I don't know why because at that time I wasn't interested in coins like that. He had it labeled as an 1851. I flipped it over and there's a nice "O" at 3 o'clock. I told him about it (I still wasn't interested in the coin). I passed on a cherrypick worth about 50-100% more than one without a mintmark. Would I have cherrypicked it if I had been interested? Probably.
Every body Cherry Picks everything all the time! Everybody Cherry Picks everything all the time! Do you not look thru the apples at the store trying to find and only selecting the very best ones? Now believe me I know what you are saying but this is business. I think it is perfectly acceptable to try and Cherry Pick any dealer that I can depending on my relationship with them. What I mean by that is - if they are not a customer or mine or a business relation of mine, "all's fair in love and war" - it's my work, my knowledge, my persistence, my investment that if I can I will get paid for by finding that DDO or whatever is there to be found. Many, many exceptions to this rule though. If I'm asked to look at someones collection and put a value on it then I would disclose the "Cherry" to the customer - that would only be fair. If I find something in a dealers stock who I know well and if the coin is vastly overlooked I would tell them so. My chances are great that with that type of approach I would end up getting the coin anyway and feel better about it though. These are my rules though and I still believe it's acceptable to Cherry Pick a dealers stock - look, if I know what it is and he does not I am in know way obligated to tell him except for the circumstances mentioned above. True case happened last week - I was at the coin shop and look at a type set that had a Barber Halve in mint state that was the big tripled die reverse in Cherry Pickers. I knew it right away but the dealer did not. I ask if he wanted to sell just the Barber half, he said no if he was going to take it out he would put it in his type set. So I said no problem but let me tell you what you have got there. The coin was not for sale so the next best thing I could do is make sure he knew so he could get the value out of it and not let it slip away form the variety designation it needs to have and be kept with that in mind - that's all I could do and he is a friend I admire - but you better believe I would have bought it if he'd sold it to me with me, at that point knowing it's potential and value and never looked back - also knowing that he in a coin shop probably got a very good deal on it and would have made good money as it would have been expensive to begin with being a Barber Half in mint state but it's a much more valuable die variety but I would have never brought it up to him about it there would be no since in that at all. I would of had to pay pretty good money, have it attributed, then graded (yuck) then found a buyer because not every body and their brother collects Barber Half varieties (there is only about four or five in my Cherry Pickers Guild) so it would have been some work for me even if I did get it. That is why I would not have looked back but these are specific reasons tailored to this one coin at this one time this coin was worth about $500 or so without the variety and maybe double that with it - - if it had been a $100 coin worth $10,000 I would have told him right off the bat - that's to much, he would need to know. I think each thing needs to be accessed on it's own and every point of argument has it's good and bad - but die varieties is a big part of what I do - if I did not get rewarded from time to time why would I do it?? Plus any coin a dealer sells me I assume he is making some money on, right? Why should he get the extra money a given die variety may be worth when I've worked for knowledge of it and he has chosen not to?
I agree...To me cherry picking just means going through a bunch of coins and finding the ones that are special to you or what you are looking for. For me shows are frustrating because in my neck of the woods its mostly American coins and world coins are often thrown into a bunch of boxes or bucket and I have to sit there and go through them...thats cherry picking for me... I sat at a guys booth for about an hour, he sold tokens and medals...I went through and found all the notgeld he had that he figured were tokens...and I got a few tokens as well...that was cherry picking notgeld out of boxes of tokens. In the end, if someone asks me what they have, I will always be completely honest and the value I quote will be the highest (retail) and maybe above what some might think the condition calls for... If someone is in the business of selling and I find a 'deal' then I will buy it...I wont be sneaky, I will just buy it...and walk away. If a person came to me and wanted me to buy a coin from them but doesn't know how much its worth...I will tell them the value and then how much I will pay, take it or leave it. If they come to me asking a price thinking its worth that much and its actually worth more? and they dont ask me what I think...I will buy it at the price they offered. I have bought coins quite often that ended up being worth far more...I bought a rare notgeld that the seller though was a cheap token...I have also passed on a notgeld coin thinking the price was way too high...later I find out it was a rare example of that coin and the price it sold for was well below the actual value (although value is, in the end, what people will pay for it). I have also bought a coin for far more than it was worth because I just liked the coin and later find that its common and worth much less than I bought it for. Once I passed on a medal (inflation hunger medal) that I thought was priced too high and later find that it was, in fact...rather cheap and I have since been unable to find one just like it. So...I guess what I am saying is...its case by case...on the whole I will cherry pick a dealer...I will tell individuals, on the whole, what they have...unless they act like they know exactly what they have and dont need my help, then I will keep my mouth shut. Then again I was told by at least one person here that I lack morals
I forgot to mention that the medals I purchased will more and likely become contest prizes for an upcoming contest that I plan to hold. Thanks for everyone's comments.
Now that one irks me a little. I don't mind looking for the right ones but the people that have to stick thier fingernails in them to see if OK should be shot. Meanwhile back to coins. At a local flea market there is a seller that has mostly coins. Over the years I've tried and tried to explain to him some are worth a lot of money. He has several large bins on his tables. He virtually DUMPS coins in those. One if for foreign coins, two are for US coins. Naturally those too get mixed up. He usually has his prices by the type of coins. All foreign coins are $0.25 each. US coins are $0.10 and up depending on what it is, how bright the sky is, how much you look like you can afford, your shoe size, size of your wallet, etc. In other words, no idea of what is what. I so call cherrypicked his coins for years. If you purchase many coins, his prices go down per coin. I usually buy all his Mercury Dimes and usually about $0.75 to $0.90 each. Also, pending on how much I argue with him. Found such coins as 26S, 42/41, 21D and many, many others. I have slowly got it sunk in over the years that some of his coins are worth money. I even gave him a price list. I'm a cherrypicker but I still try to help those that appear not to be able to help themselves.
