Toning questions

Does toning always add value to a coin? Or does it depend on the state of the toning? I appreciate the look of some toning but am not sure I want to add them to my collection. Somehow in my mind it makes the coins look in less original condition than when issued. Is this an acquired taste among collectors? Is toning inevitible on coins? Just wondering.
Ryan

 

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I think this thread will get some really interesting responses. How toning effects value is completely up to the collector - I don't know if it will ever increase the value, but it can sometimes decrease the value to some collectors. Some think it is evironmental damage on the surface of the coin. Others, like me, love good toning. There is such a thing as good toning and bad toning... and artificial toning - all depending on how it effects the eye appeal of any given coin. If you like it, and it appears generally pleasing to the eye, it may not effect the value - and I suppose I could see instances where dealers and sellers feel it adds value, that's up to the buyer. Artificial toning is always bad.

As to whether it happens to all coins eventually depends on how the coin is stored. because it happens through chemical reactions to air and light. If you look at a coin that was stored in a whitmann folder, it will have more toning on one side, due to only one side being exposed, while the other side was protected.

 

Technically, toning is the destruction of the surface of a coin due to environmental conditions. There are various colors of toning due to the chemical content of the air and items surronding the coin. In recent coin shows I have seen toned coins go for more than their untoned equal condition coins. My personal feelings is that some are very interesting to look at but I am unsure of how much of the toning is accidental or created. I find it hard to accept that a MS63 Morgan that is toned truly reflects the description of MS. But that is me. I know that all coins, unless they are sealed are undergoing some sort of interaction with the environment. this is to be expected. But when it reaches the 'rainbow effect', I don't believe that the state of the coin is what the designer or the Mint intended. Again, my opinion.

 

Hey Ryan--(hope your not my brother-in-law!!! his name is Ryan too)

Toning can raise the value or can lower it...deep dark toning I think would lower it..whereas bright green and blue toning might raise the value.

It all depends on the buyer...I don't like too much toning so most of the time I try to buy coins with out it....

I have seen coins graded by ANACS come back AT (artificial toning) that the only thing that happened to them were that they were left in the sun for a year...

Toning can happen because of many things...I think most of the time it is because of the way the coins are stored....

If you want to see something neat put a new cent on a light blub and turn on the light and leave it for about 5 min...then turn it off and leave it for another 5-10 min (let the coin cool off) and you will have a toned cent...yes it will be AT but it will be fun!!

I'm sure more "toning lovers" will stop by and show some photos maybe...!!!

Speedy

 

Here is a "beginner's" answer. When I see a photo of a high grade mint state coin that is completely toned, I can't even figure out how the grader determined that it is high grade. Washington quarters and Roosevelt dimes seem to frequently have a speckled appearance that I think is ugly, but which doesn't seem to affect the grade -- or the cost. So I guess I'm one of those superficial shiny coin lovers. But here's a question. I know silver will tone, but how about other metals? Are there coins that don't tone? I put the coins I care about in airtites, but maybe that won't help in the long run either.

 

The only metal that does not tone naturally is gold. It may be possible to tone it artificially but I am unsure of that. Gold does not react with corrosives (salt water, etc) so maybe artificial wouldn't work either. But the environment that you live in or keep the coin in will detemine what will happen. Coin collectors in Hawaii must have a real hard time with toning, due to the humidity. And Nevada/Arizona must be the best, as long as the coin is kept away from corrosives. Paper when it is made has a sulfur content so when you combine the sulfur with the humidity, you create sulphuric acid. That is why those Whitman holders are so hard on coins. Since no coin holder is airtight, the only alternative is to store the coins in a low humidity environment. A lot of safes have a renewable dessicant (absorbs humidity) and the airtight nature of the safe adds to the protection.

 

GD, I had never looked at the subject from your point of view before. I had always assumed (yes I know what ass u me means) that the shiny silver coins were in the Nevada environment. To me that was logical because, from what I understand, the gambling lobbists kept the silver dollars in production. And I have never researched 'dip' but was under the impression that dip was detectable. So I am ignorant on that subject. And now I have a slighlty different perspective on toning. But I still question a MS 65 toned Morgan. I can relate to your statement that the coins is in its natural state. But then, the bag marks would also be part of its natural state and the graders detract from the grade due to bag marks.
Thank you for your different point of view. Very well thought out.

 

"Toning" is high-faulting language for "tarnishing". There's nothing else to say.

 

Ahhh, one of my favorite subjects. The disgusting, tarnished, horrible toned coin. Here's my 2 cents worth of answers to the original questions:

1. Does toning always add value to a coin?

Absolutely not. But, it certainly can. Just like all other products for sale, it is merely a function of finding the buyer willing to pay your price or bid higher in an auction. After all, not every collector is drawn to the dipped, blast white coin. Ug! How boring!

2. Or does it depend on the state of the toning?

No again. While many collectors wouldn't touch a toned coin with a 10 foot poll, there are some who only collect dark toned silver and others who only like the rainbow effect. Different strokes.

And to satootoko I say. You are correct and I hope you always maintain that attitude, and please, ensure your friends and acquaintances share your views. That'll leave more for me an' Doug.

Hey, everybody's gotta collect something.

Thank you kindly,
JD White

 

Collectors who have this arttitude will sleep better at night. I have been on both sides, and you can drive yourself crazy when you srtart to see a whisp of toning on your silver coin. OH NO!!!!! IT'S RUINED!!!! Well, not really. A little toning is natural and can be attractive.

I have not seen much of my silver coins for over 10 or even 20 years. When I return to the US from Germany in a month, I will do an inventory of my stuff, and I expect to find some great toned Ikes and other coins.

Then there is my favorite nickel - a 1961 proof that had turned blue/gray.

 

Well... Here's my two dollars worth since I do not collect cents..."-)

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and I have my feet firmly planted in both camps...

Like what was said before, how can a 100+ year old piece of silver not tarnish. Hell my wife's SilverWare tarnishes in a matter of months, has to be cleaned every time we pull it out. I would guess Morgan's in the center of a roll or bag would be less likely to tarnish as those on the end of the roll or touching the bag. lightly Dipping a coin to clean it has always been accepted and still is by many today but not to the extent of the past as that's what the customer base expected ( bright & shinny "-) I have nothing against lightly dipping a coin as long as it's done correctly by a competent coinologist.

To get to your question...

I break it down to two categories as far as Toning...

Clean Toning and Dirty Toning...

Clean toning can increase the coins value 2 to 4 times book...

( Extreme caution must be applied when purchasing toned coins as with all things involving $$$ there are those that pray on the unsuspecting and artificial toning has become more prevalent in today's market... "-(

Dirty toning can decrease the coins value to half book or less...

( In my eyes Dirty Toning is a great case for lightly dipping a coin, kind of like giving it a fresh start. But then again the more toned coins I collect, the more beauty I find in all of them..."-)

Here are some examples of both, bet you can tell the difference between the two categories..."-)

 

DEPENDS on the buyer. PERIOD

 

toning

This might be slightly off topic but...

Suppose I have a brand new American Eagle and I want to encourage it to tone, just for the heck of it.

I am NOT talking artificially toning it, just storing it in a way to try to get it to tone attractively.

Any suggestions? I want to own a attractively toned AE just for fun and I want to know it is not artificial toning so, any suggestions?

How should I store it? How long will it take? What can I do to help it along the toning process that would not be considered artificial?

Thanks!
CoinDragon

 

While I don't advocate helping a coin tone, here is one that sat in a brick-n-mortar dealer's case (in Oregon) since the day the dealer purchased it in 1994 along with several others. It was stored in a soft plastic flip and sat in afternoon sun everyday, and the shop is heated with a gas furnace. I've had it for a couple of years and it now resides in a NGC holder graded MS66. The process took about 9 years. It also had three other brothers left in the case, but this one had the most unique toning. Horrible, isn't it??

 

Where as I love the coin - I am finding it hard to believe in such a thing as sunshine in Oregon. So tell us what really happened.

 

Coin Dragon, I would think that if you kept your coin that you wanted toned in you bathroom (where the humidity from the shower would reach it) along side a piece of copper, it would tone. The copper should give a greenish tone and it would depend upon how long, how humid, how hot, etc, before the toning would be to your liking. I am sure that someone could tell you of other metals that would tone other colors but I don't know of them. Sulfur will turn it black.

 

Well Rick, believe it or don't, that's exactly how the coin was toned, and yes there is such a thing as sunshine in Oregon. And in Washington State too.

I would also venture a guess that the gas furnace bi-products and the soft flip probably had more to do with the toning than the sunlite case.

..JD