Non-believers.

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by JayAg47, Jan 2, 2021.

  1. rrdenarius

    rrdenarius non omnibus dormio Supporter

    Most of my ancient coin conversations take place here. I am a member of a local coin club and talk to a few folks, but many are like Bing's friends.

     
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  3. usmc 6123

    usmc 6123 Active Member

    You poor bastards I did not know. When I see a coin that is 2000 years old I want to hold it in my hand and try to think of who before me had this coin. What were they wearing. What did he buy with it. Sort of a day dream thing. I collect laminate error cents so other people just say oh and change the subject.
     
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  4. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    My wife collected bells and still has them but rarely gets more as the hobby is dying with the generation who collected them. Fifty years ago she was the youngest member of the local bell collector group but that club folded as fewer and fewer members could travel to meetings. Bell collectors paid good money for bells but the prices were rarely mentioned at meetings and played a very small part in the hobby. Coin collectors seem obcessed with the question and consider the profit potential the main reason for participating in the hobby. In bells, an old one with a groove inside where the clapper struck for decades was a bonus and a pristine piece two hundred years old was almost defective. Even ancient coin collectors tend to look down on pieces that participated in the economy that made them and preference is shown to a coin that spent 2000 years in a 'bank bag' and hermetically sealed vault. It is just a different way of looking at collecting. My wife's bell collection with be worth about a tenth of what she paid over the years and not that much if we can't find someone who cares. Non collectors seem to prefer a bell labeled 'Souvenir of Disneyland' to one with the mark of a nineteenth century blacksmith in North Wagga Wagga. Come to think of it, it is easier to sell a 2020 NCLT round than it is most ancients. Maybe the hobbies are not so different after all. Coins are just dying more slowly.
     
  5. Mat

    Mat Ancient Coincoholic

    I'm just glad I don't collect shoes, cereal boxes, Pop figures, and some other obscure stuff others are into. I see so much of it I just shake my head & glad I have little metal disks with art & history attached.

    But I still enjoy autograph collecting second & comic books have slipped to third place since I detest almost all the stupid storylines going on in franchises I like right now.

    Autographs I have noticed have taken a dive. I don't know why. I have seen many collections sold off the past few years as well as ones that used to be a lot only sell for a quarter of what they once sold but still hard to get.

    Maybe they are the new stamps.
     
  6. usmc 6123

    usmc 6123 Active Member

    I met jessie owens and got his autograph when I was 9 at a NY auto show.
     
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  7. John Skelton

    John Skelton Morgan man!

    Ahh, and so it goes. Those who do collect cereal boxes and Pop figures don't understand your fascination with old coins. It's whatever floats your boat.
     
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  8. jamor1960

    jamor1960 The More I learn, the Less I know....

    I too have an autograph collection and feel about it the way I do about my coins. I am a collector and don't worry about the future value of what I've got or what I acquire in the future. I collect what I like and that's all that matters to me. I'm leaving it up to my wife and/or my heirs to worry about how much everything is worth after I'm gone!! :cool:
     
  9. serafino

    serafino Well-Known Member

    What happened to those two coins your Dad bought for you back in 1960 ? Reminds me of the 1842-O half dollar my dear late Uncle Freddy gave me when I was a young boy, it's one of my most precious coins and I always think of him helping me with my collection.
     
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  10. Al Kowsky

    Al Kowsky Well-Known Member

    I ended up selling them to a dealer in Santa Barbara, CA during a period of "hard times" :(. The coins are gone but the memories are not :happy:.
     
  11. serafino

    serafino Well-Known Member

    Here's my issue, I mainly collect 1600-1860 Italian States coins and when I've gone to large coin shows, I rarely see one of those coins but I see tons of Roman (Ancient Italian) coins.
     
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  12. Al Kowsky

    Al Kowsky Well-Known Member

    The greatest empires in history leave the most behind :smuggrin:.
     
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  13. DonnaML

    DonnaML Well-Known Member

    I've never encountered skepticism about the authenticity of my ancient coins from the relatively few people I've told I collect them. After all, most people I know have seen them in museums. Instead, the common reaction is surprise at how plentiful and relatively inexpensive they can be.

    The greater problem is complete lack of interest! Even my son, who's an Art History PhD student and has certainly studied the art of the ancient world (although it's far from his field), shows mild interest at best. And the interest from most people was no greater when the focus of my collecting was British coins and historical medals.

    At least my son doesn't usually get that glassy-eyed look we're all familiar with when I mention ancient coins, but I know enough to keep those mentions brief, even with him. He finds my antiquities far more interesting, and has since he was a small child and used to get very excited about our having our own museum. (Ironically, most people who are in my home and see the antiquities -- which are on display much more prominently than the coins -- assume that they're replicas. Frankly, I'm just as happy to have people make that assumption unless I know them well.)

    I believe that a big reason most people, including my son, show such little interest in ancient coins is the same basic reason that coin exhibits always get much less attention, and sparser crowds, in art museums than other ancient art. It's that they're mostly (unless they're made of gold) so small and unprepossessing, even if they're fairly large silver coins and even if they're sitting in a tray or on a wall at a museum, compared to bigger and more spectacular ancient art like statues, mosaics, figural vases, etc. It's easy to pass them by, and you really have to examine them closely and under magnification in order to appreciate them. And who has time for that?

    After all, the images of ancient coins we exchange and admire are mostly highly magnified. If all we could exchange were life-sized images of coins, and we couldn't enlarge them or zoom in on them, I think this forum would be a lot less fun even for us, and we're interested in the subject.

    The general lack of interest doesn't really bother me, though. At least collecting ancient coins isn't considered really weird by most people, like adults collecting Star Wars toys or superhero comic books or baseball cards, all of which were originally intended for children. Besides, the fewer people who have an interest in ancient coins, the more of them are left for us! And at least we have one place to talk about them.
     
  14. ambr0zie

    ambr0zie Dacian Taraboste

    What surprised me (and not in a pleasant way) is the ignorance of most people, even modern coin collectors, when it comes to ancients. I have been a passionate modern coins collector for 8 years (and an amateur collector, as a light hobby, for 30 years), I have a main area in modern numismatics, but if I see a coin outside my area, I try to get as much information as I can. I try to avoid stating uneducated opinions as I hate seeing this from others.
    I am a member of some Facebook numismatic groups, and on some rare occasions, somebody comes with an ancient coin, usually with the classic question - how much does it worth. Not "do you know what this is and an estimate price". Oh no.
    If they are not interested about the history behind the coin and don't have the slightest curiosity to read a legend, well I don't think my help would be appreciated.

    When I see a person thinking about $$$$ and nothing less, I just grab some popcorn and check the comments. Usually people without a clue. Most of them "fake" "cast" - standard comments from the same people, no matter what coin is there. Usually there is that decent fella who just provides a proper attribution. Immediately there are the geniuses with their wisdom (not the Genio Popvli Romani) - "that's 2000 years old! at least 500$!" "nah it can't be 500$, I saw a 1880 coin sold for that, this needs to be much more expensive!"
    Then the same decent fella comes with a printscreen from an auction where it says 10$. "Are you trying to trick the man? who on earth sells you these for 10$? Tell me, I'll buy 200 of them".
    There is no shame in not knowing something. But speaking about something you have no idea about annoys me badly. I have zero knowledge in fields such as, let's say, Chinese ancient coins. But I admit it and I avoid "guessing" a price unless I specifically want to embarrass myself.

    A clear example is my fiancee's father. He has no experience in numismatics but he also enjoys expressing opinions, usually total nonsense. He told me once he found a coin in the dirt and he googled it and it's about 3000 Euros. I wanted to see it.
    Of course, it was a modern coin, in G-VG, corroded, correct price in that state 1-2 EUR. I explained that most likely what he saw was an MS67-68 even if technically it's the same coin but he was convinced I'm trying to trick him.
    After a few months, by accident, I found the same coin at a numismatic fare with 3 EUR (F-VF) - of course, his reaction was that the seller is an idiot.
    His opinion about my 130 ancient coins was that I could buy myself a new house if I sell them.
    So if you have a house for ~1500-2000 EUR, I'm in.
     
  15. DonnaML

    DonnaML Well-Known Member

    I don't collect autographs, although I have a number of autographed copies of books that I bought when they were new, when I used to go to Barnes & Noble a lot at lunchtime (there was one near my office for many years) and they would almost always have a table of autographed copies of new books near the front.

    When I fell on difficult times some years ago, I discovered that such autographed books are so plentiful they're basically worthless, with few exceptions.

    The only autograph I have that I really like and have framed on my wall is a letter that A.A. Milne wrote to my father in 1927, when my father was seven years old, in response to a fan letter my father had written asking what the A.A. stood for. (See attached.) I hope that most of you know who A.A. Milne was, although I have no idea if "kids today" still read the original Winnie the Pooh books, or When We Were Very Young and Now We Are Six, as opposed to just being familiar with the Disney version.

    detail of Autograph - A.A. Milne letter April 8, 1927 (2).jpg
     
  16. Charles Riley

    Charles Riley Welsh-language medal collector and numismatist

    What a fantastic letter! I loved Winnie-the-Pooh books (the A A Milne ones), but then I'm 55 now!
     
  17. robinjojo

    robinjojo Well-Known Member

    Here's a plausible alternative view of ancient coins, though the science behind it is a bit thin:

    "They are the product of the ultra-parallel universe Zeeego whose benign proto-plasma fungi inhabitants swim in seas of old-fashion oatmeal cooked to perfection while they spend their lives making beautiful objects to fool gullible Earthlings into thinking that they own something ancient, when in fact the only thing getting ancient is themselves, so they merrily go along, blurbing and grunching under the edible waves of the inner Goolupian, teleporting more and more coins to these credulous Earthlings by way of auction houses, dealers, and holes in the ground throughout the Mediterranean, Europe and Asia."
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2021
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  18. Mat

    Mat Ancient Coincoholic

    That's really cool!

    Most of my autographs are from going to San Diego Comic Con since 1987, but stopped in 2009. I also went to local autograph only shows with my dad and met many of the classic hollywood movie & tv actors. Living in L.A. helped.

    Nowadays, thanks to ebay, celebs caught on their stuff was being sold high and charge outrageous amounts to sign something as well as charge to take a pic With them WITH YOUR camera, so that stuff has stopped. Many change $50 when they were just dead body #3 or #4 on CSI or Law & Order, lame.

    Butch Patrick, Eddie Munster from the Munsters told me people don't want autographs anymore, it's just a quick selfie and that's it. And this was in 2018 as he was signing for free at a local con.

    And many teachers I know told me kids barely write anymore, it's all computers.

    So I guess with tech & today's teaching styles, things like autographs are going the way of stamps.
     
  19. jamor1960

    jamor1960 The More I learn, the Less I know....

    That's AWESOME!! I don't have any autographs that old. I do however have several books that I got signed, in person, by the authors. Getting to meet them is a big part of the thrill of autograph collecting for me. Here are 2 of my favorite authors, not only to meet, but to read!! 2018-terrybrooks02.jpg 2016-bradmeltzer01.jpg
     
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  20. +VGO.DVCKS

    +VGO.DVCKS Well-Known Member

    Yike, my uncle, a Sinologist (and New England WASP) who speaks fluent Cantonese, said the same thing about older Chinese cash.
    ...Regarding family dynamics more broadly, where coins are concerned, Yeah, that's kind of the default mode. Going back several decades, I gave my niece several LRBs that would otherwise be most of the best in my collection. Once, at a rare, effectively random family gathering, she asked me if I could do more with the attributions. I said, 'Sure, let me look at 'em.' She never got back to me about it. Don't even know if she's sold them all, for (expletive of choice; mine would go, 'D--b-A-s') money.
    If people don't have a shred of broader historical literacy, operative on cultural and political levels, this is kind of what you get. ...Comparable to the inexorable result of several recent presidential elections. Especially in an ostensible representative democracy, the consequences are not only annoying; they're (expletive of choice) Dangerous. ...Sorry to end on such a cheerful note. (--And Here's Another One: along with historical literacy, what ever happened to Irony? I can at least Remember that....)
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2021
  21. ambr0zie

    ambr0zie Dacian Taraboste

    That would be a shame, if she sold them. Especially since it was a present.
    I saw there are two types of non collectors - the ones that have no respect or interest to numismatics, they would gladly throw coins in the trash can if they randomly find coins, and ones that are deeply convinced any coin costs millions.
    A few years ago I was gladly helping beginners (mostly with modern coins). But it's frustrating to see that after you find the correct attribution and even provide a clear price range, they look for a second opinion.
    I don't have the patience for this, if one prefers to believe the coin would buy a new car because it's "old" and "perfect condition" (......) and, most important, SILVER, who am I to judge.
     
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