New thread - should moderns even be graded using current standards? This thing with all the moderns being graded as MS-Proof 69 or higher has got me thinking. Should we even apply the same grading criteria to these as we do for **real coins made for circulation***? Now what I mean is "is it fair to apply the grading standards used for our business strike coins to modern perfect coins made for collectors"? Or the reverse - "it is fair to apply the grading standards used for modern coins to our circulated business strikes"??? Now bare with me here a little and give me some leeway. When our business strike coinage comes from the mint the grades, as I am sure you all know, are anywhere from AU-58 to MS-67 - technically there should be know AU but I'm accounting for damaged coins that would have to be downgraded. Plus you'all know the amount of MS-67, 66's in very, very low compared to all the others and generally speaking we are talking about the vast majority being MS-60 thru 64. Now this is off the presses and we apply the same set of strict criteria to these as we do modern made for collectors commemoratives and such? Should not the moderns have a caveat of sort that states MS, but Special Mint product before the numbered grade is assigned to the coin??? Don't the moderns already have an advantage even before the coin is struck, special dies, special planchets, special handling, packaging and so on??? Or is this just a "given" fact we should all know??? Seems to me we may have missed the boat somewhere with this technology. The moderns were made to be high mint state grades from the get go - business strike certaily are not so why are they in the same class at all??? I mean how often do you see a silver Buffalo dollar in MS or Proof 63??? Never is the answer form this desk. When I take a Lincoln cent out of a modern mint set, (since 2005) I label it accordingly for a couple of reasons, first the coin is obviously better (most times) and I will have to ask a little more because I have paid more for it. So the final question begs as answer, If one coin is "just made" with all the inherent flaws and jumbled around with millions of others and then put into circulation and the other is specifically made with 10x the quality control, should they even be in the same category at all with regard to grading criteria? "Just want to always keep questioning - it's the way I am"
i see what your saying. but to me, a coin is a coin. and grading, is there to help the buyer know what condition the coin is in, if unseen or not. i think that grading should be the same for every coin, old or new. imho. but what do i know? im interested in seeing other responses. maybe im wrong. -mike
I agree with Mike. Although graded by the same standards, the fact that so many moderns (commems and mint set coins) grade high compared to business strikes merely reflects the special handling which was pointed out in the original post. I don't think another grading standard is something we need. In addition, since 2005 the mint set coins are designated "Satin Finish" (PCGS), or "SMS" (NGC)...and everyone knows that higher grades in these designations are commonplace compared to business strikes. And this is reflected in the valuation of such coins. The present system now has enough levels...I hope to never see "MS69.5, 69.7, etc.. That would be awful!
First of all, I want you to find me all these coins that you say grade MS69. PF69, yeah I'll believe that in a heartbeat. But MS69 ? You're dreaming. It just doesn't happen. Yes, since 2005 when the satin finish on Mint Sets came out there have been more coins graded 69. But from among the regular business strikes - afraid not. About the best you can hope for in a business strike is a 67, with a few 68's - maybe. Even 67 is tough. Sometimes very tough. But the main point of your question - should moderns even be graded ? Until 2002 or so NGC would not grade any coin struck after 1964. But because they got so many complaints about this from the public, they decided to change their policy to satisfy their customers' requests. So if you wish to blame somebody for moderns being graded - blame the public, not the TPG.
and y not? just what is so bad about modern coins that ngc had to stick their nose on them. i believe some of the best coins are the modern comems sure they wont be worth much but they are wonderful works of art. look at lincoln and the new braille coin coming out just bowls me over. I am glad that the paying public put the TPG in their place
as i said it again and again. do not grade it. period. all new modern collectible coins direct from the mint are good enough. those should be around ms67 and up and the proof should be around proof68 or proof69. i don't believe a perfect coin. don't waste your money for slab. learn how to grade the coin.
I see what you're saying but I don't think there should be two grading standards for essentially the same product regardless of manufactoring method. Grade is really irrevelent if you buy coins in hand unless you're an innexperienced investor. Guy
I don't see any reason to prohibit grading just because of technological advances in the minting process. If customers want to pay for grading, let them. Let the market decide. After all, not all of them will grade identically, so there is some merit to verifying the difference.
Not to get off topic here, but what is the definition of a "modern" coin? Anything minted after 1964?
With the slight change to "Anything dated after 1964"*, that's a reasonable definition for US coins, but what is significant about the differences between, for example 1964 UK/Canada/Australia/NZ/etc. pennies, and their 1965 successors AH1384/1385 coins of Muslim countries JE5724/25 Israeli coins Meiji 39/40 Japanese coins? *The US Mint continued to churn out silver coins with the 1964 date for a few additional years, at the same time it was producing the first clad coins.
Ben, As stated before, I think the TPG should grade the coins accurately and consistently. If the coin is a MS69, then give it an MS69. It is not the TPG's fault that the mint quality has progressed to the point where these coins can consistently be minted at the MS69 level. And to be fair, there are moderns including ASE's in lower MS holders. BTW, I don't collect moderns, but I do have some.
