Please explain this Jefferson Nickel

Not my coin -- posted by Sumorada on another forum. Thought it might make for an interesting discussion....







I've never seen anything like this before. :kewl:

Can you explain how something like this would happen? :secret:

 

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Looks like an overall weak strike in the center of the coin - obverse and reverse. The small scratches on the unstruck steps are scratches that were on the planchet and remained after striking because the metal did not flow there.

 

I'm pretty new to this, but it looks like a portion of the steps is showing under where the steps should be, between the top of the N and T in MONTICELLO, no?

 

It does eerily resemble a clashmark of steps. Ironic on a coin that has no steps, but it does look like them none the less. More so than it looks like a planchet flaw.

 

You're right. I don't know what may have caused that.

My first thought (after you pointed that out) was perhaps "dropped steps" (similar to a "dropped letter" where grease impacted in a letter in a die drops and ispressed into a coin. But that could not be the case here because the "steps" are raised, not incuse.

I guess that was Mike's original question and I do not have an answer.

 

Are you sure they are raised. They look raised in one photo and incuse in the other. My thinking was the same as yours "dropped steps".

 

Thought you might like this Lincoln error. Similar but a cud type error yours looks like dropped steps to me. EDITED--please, no offers to buy/sell/trade. I'm starting a collection of error nickels.

 

Really interesting.
Every time I think of a possible cause I shoot it down.
I see elements hinting at a weak strike (hair behind Jeff's ear).
I see elements hinting at a die fill (steps and portico).
I DON'T see elements hinting at a die clash.
I like the "dropped" theory.

I think posting the images on the eBay Coin Chatroom and the Coin Discussion Board would be worthwhile.

 

it definitely looks like a piece of the steps to me, you can even see the verticle line that defines the edge of the steps. How that happened I have no idea.

 

Never seen that but,

There is significant polishing showing on rev. so it's some kind of clash.
It looks like the end steps on each side of Monticello not the main center ones.
I'm scratching my head on how a reverse clash with reverse happen though???

 

Could you explain that more? How do you think it was struck twice just to get what might be stairs below Monticello.

Thanks

 

the coin might have post mint damage.

Ruben

 

Im not too up on errors or the multitude of things that can go wrong when minting coins, but is it possible a piece of a broken die got in there? Die gets a piece sheared or fractured off, before they catch it a piece lands onto a new planchette that got fed in there. Only problem I think would be then the coin would be rather lightly struck because the piece would keep it from compressing completely, just brainstorming.

 

According to the OP, the feature IS raised.

 

Definitely looks like a dropped device. If the 'mystery image' is incuse, then the dropped device has been pressed into the coin itself. If the image is raised, then the die has been damaged by the dropped device thus leaving a raised partial impression of the steps permanently in the die. Not a clash as an earlier post possibly indicated. If it were a true (die) clash, the image of the steps would be on the obverse, not the reverse.

JMO

 

Correction:

"If the image is raised, then the die has been damaged by the dropped device thus leaving a raised partial impression of the steps permanently in the die."

If the image is raised, then the die has been damaged by the dropped device thus leaving an incuse partial impression of the steps permanently in the die, thus causing a raised image to be transferred to the coin.

*that's better*

:goofer:

 

*Do I hear an echo?*

Please see the 2nd sentence in post #17.

The pre and post war Jefferson five cent piece is composed of 25% nickel. Nickel is extremely hard. As a matter of fact, you and I both know it's the hardest metal composition the US Mint uses for coinage, yes?
It tears up the dies like no other metal. Die life is shortened greatly due to this problem, no?

When a planchet is struck under extremely high pressure, it causes the metal to heat immensely and liquify to a certain degree in order for the metal to flow into the devices.

When a die has been used continouisly, does not the constant flow of metal and extreme pressure have a tendency to cause the metal to build up in the cracks and crevices of these devises and eventually fill in the device?

The answer is: 'Yes'

Eventually this debris can and does break loose and falls onto the planchet.

When a planchet is loaded into the die and a piece of this die fill (the stair case in this instance) breaks loose and falls onto the planchet, image side up, then struck by the die, you mean to tell me that this piece of extremely hard metal debris would not leave an incuse image of itself in the die? I beg to differ.

Due to the fact that the error image on the coin is raised, not incuse, this scenario has to be accepted as the only viable way this could have happened until proven otherwise.

Once again:

JMO