After reviewing the Top 10 of FrizzyAntoine, the 1st photo he posted struck a cord . His Republican denarius serratus looked an awful lot like my coin . His coin is pictured on the top & mine on the bottom. I believe the reverse on both coins is a die match ! CT members, give me your opinions please . Q. Antonius Balbus, Rome Mint, 83-82 BC, Obverse: Laureate head of Jupiter, S . C behind. Reverse: Victory in quadriga holding reins, wreath, & palm frond. C, below Q ANTO BAB PR in exergue. AR denarius: 4,07 gm, 19 mm, 5 h.
James, I think that is just striking distortion, or possibly rework done on the die. Everything else on the reverses looks very close .
Any good question spawns more questions. I agree this is a die match. Do you feel that your coin was struck first and is sharper due to die wear or was it just a better strike and shows sharper detail. Developing a 'feel' for the difference between coin wear, die wear, striking force, striking evenness and cleaning erosion is a work in progress with me. Does Crawford give a number of reverse dies known for this coin? Is there more than one die with C under the horses or is this an indicator of the die ID? My coin below has S. on the obverse but no reverse letter. Perhaps our RR specialists will comment on the 'rules' used for die lettering on these.
"Do you feel that your coin was struck first and is sharper due to die wear or was it just a better strike and shows sharper detail"? That's a tough one to answer Doug . I tend to think my coin is just a better strike . I already had an example of this coin type that had attractive toning, pictured below, but decided to upgrade after seeing the coin I posted above.
I agree that it's a reverse die match. Even if the O is slightly different -- and I'm not entirely convinced it is -- that could just mean (as @Al Kowsky points out) that the die was reworked at some point. Two different dies, engraved separately, could not possibly be so identical in all other respects. According to Crawford, there are 378 different reverse dies in total for this type (No. 364), including all of its several different varieties, differing in the existence or placement of the control-mark (e.g., on the obverse vs. on the reverse). When present, the control-marks always consist of the letters of the Latin alphabet. The coin in the OP appears to be variety 364/1d. As simple arithmetic dictates (even assuming that the complete alphabet was used over several times with different placement), "each control-mark may have several dies, as may be documented from any large collection." (Crawford Vol. I p. 379.) I do not see this variety of Crawford 364 in the Schaefer RRDP [Roman Republican Die Project] index at CRRO, either in the binders or in the processed clippings.
Pretty cool to find die-matches among coins owned by different members. It's akin to a long-lost sibling being reunited again. I'd be curious to know how many coins(on avg.) might be minted from a single die before the die was retired -- due to wear/breakage et. al.? Were they minted in the 100s? 1000s? With low production coins, it's well understood that there may be only a few different dies among a certain type. So it is obviously more common for rarer types to find die-mates. Yet for mass-production coinage with many different individual dies, it makes me wonder pertaining to circulation: Were these coins separated at birth to find their way around the Republic alone on their own unique paths, or were they shipped somewhere together to remain and circulate in the same limited area? It would be so cool if coins could speak and show us the paths that they've travelled through time -- Much like the way scientists put sensors on wildlife to track their movement patterns.
I'm pretty sure that I've read that some types of Republican coins were minted in quantities well exceeding one million, so that suggests > 1,000 coins per die, given that I don't think any Republican types had more than 1,000 different dies.
Donna, Thanks for the added research ! Knowing the rough number of dies extant for these issues can give us some interesting estimates on mintage. The mintage for this coin type was obviously massive, but we mustn't forget millions of Republican denarii were melted down when Rome began debasing coinage.
I was almost certain that it was a reverse die match, but my eye keeps being drawn to Victory's wings - and in particular the space between the lower part of the wing and her lower back. There seems to be significantly more space on the upper coin than the lower one. Is this true, an illusion of the photo, or the product of a curved flan???? SC
Interesting observation. It does look different. I have no explanation, other than the possibility mentioned above that the die was reworked at some point in between the striking of the two coins.
Reverse is a match...There are too many exact similarities!... ....That's interesting....I wonder if strength and exact angle of strike maybe combined with slight curvature and size of flan could replicate this?
Flan curvature would easily explain it and seratus coins often have some distortion due to the way the teeth were cut. But one would have to have the coin in hand to be absolutely sure. For a die match lots of similarities won't do, they really have to match entirely - once wear, flan and strike anomalies are taken into account. The fact it was the same artist, plus the use of a technique like hubbing can lead to a great many similarities on different dies..... SC
Die hubbing is commonly used in manufacturing modern coinage that requires large quantities of coins to be struck. A master die is made first that has the most important features of a coin (usually the portrait), & the image of that die is made in relief. That die is then used to make working dies that have an intaglio impression that only needs lettering & minute details added to it to make a striking die. The use of die hubbing in ancient coins has been hotly debated & never really proven. The first use of this technique I can remember reading of in ancient coins was on the famous Owl decadrachms & tetradrachms. The extremely high relief on these coins would be very suitable for the die hubbing process of making striking dies quickly. This might also account for the large number of Owls extant today.
