Counterfeits In Current Ebay Auctions

If anyone tells you crime doesn't pay, they don't know about Ebay:

http://search-completed.ebay.com/_W...aslZwillybironQQsaslcZ0QQsaslopZ1QQsofocusZbs

That is one seller who's made 4G's this past weekend, selling counterfeit Morgans, and Ebay is still asleep at the wheel! :goof:

Ribbit

 

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Here's another one:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=260362263648

Compare it to this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Replica-1795-Draped-Bust-90-Silver-Dollar-COPY_W0QQitemZ140301393857

or this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Replica-1795-Draped-Bust-Dollar-90-SILVER_W0QQitemZ250372458881

The interesting thing is the ding on the shoulder isn't a mint thing, it's a post mint ding and these counterfeits all have them, including other dates made from the same host coin.

Ribbit

 

Slick Willy is on a roll:

http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZwillybiron

I guess the 4G's he made this weekend wasn't enough?

I'm very surprised no one here hasn't questioned why Ebay allows this to go on, even after they've had so many reports filed against this dweeb? :whistle:

Ribbit

 

A seller who has already made off with about 4 grand of other people's money has 4 fake trade dollars up for sale. They all have fat rims, terrible dentils, and bad details. the 1877-cchas the wrong reverse. view items here:http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/willybiron_W0QQ_nkwZQQ_armrsZ1QQ_fromZQQ_mdoZQQ_sopZ10

item numbers: 250374938278, 250374943801, 250374947903, 250374954197

link for reporting to CCW: http://www.ebay.com/ccw

 

You were writing as I was posting, Charles! :mouth:

Ribbit

 

OK, so besides the pickup poin on the ding in the shoulder, how can you tell it is fake? Im just asking cause I don't get to examine flowing hair dollars in person very often as you can imagine! It does have more of a "cast" look than a stamped look, are these made from molds of real coins and then poured and artificially darkened? Please give us more info, some of the other fakes like the trade dollar and some morgans look pretty obvious, but this one not so much to me. Its at $600 now! Maybe someone should warn the winner?

 

He has 202 feedbacks with a 100% rating--all as a buyer.

He has ZERO feedback as a seller.

I reported the listings, but I'm still waiting on a response from emails I sent to ebay when I reported world_coinz. Their unwillingness to respond is going to cost someone a bunch of money.

 

I hate to burst you all's bubbles but Ebay probably will never spend much time reading this, or any other forum.

They are very close-lipped about their business but best estimates are that they have something like 13 Million new listings per week. They have simply gotten too big to properly manage their business. There is absolutely no way that they can properly police all the listings they get.

We here deal with the coin listings that we see but coins are probably far less than 1% of their listings. There's simply no reason why they would, or should, hire 5 or 10 people simply to manage the coin listings.

If they did that, they'd have to hire people to police the Stamp and Currency listings, the toy listings, the antique listings, the automotive listings, the doll listings, the clothing listings, the Jewelry listings, the book and document listings, the photograph listings, the tool listings, the electronics listings, the CD/DVD listings, the games listings, the machinery listings, the military memorabilia listings, the glass and china listings, the figurine listings, etc.

Face it, it ain't going to happen.

The only way we can effect any change is to continue reporting on a case-by-case basis. Even those may not get immediate response because they're also dealing with complaints from the other types of listings.

Fact: Ebay will not take the lead on policing coin auctions.
Fact: They will possibly take some action on reports received with enough lead time.
Fact: They will NOT take action on listings that are not reported.

For the hundredth time, if you see a fraudulent listing - report it.

If you have constructive suggestions, not criticisms, write to them (phone calls will be ignored). If you tell them simply that they should do something about Chinese counterfeits, that suggestion will get no action. If, on the other hand, you present them with a logical and workable programming suggestion that would detect counterfeits and that would also skip non-counterfeits and would not require hiring additional employees, thay may actually listen.

write to:

John Donahoe, CEO
eBay Inc.
2145 Hamilton Avenue
San Jose, California 95125

Note: John Donahoe recently replaced Meg Whitman as CEO but his tenure is currently in question because ebay's revenues only increased by 4% in the 3rd quarter of last year. That, plus seller's complaints have put his continuing leadership in question. If you write to him you'd better do it quick.

 

I agree with DavidH, that eBay will not effectively police their auctions. As he points out, they're too big. But there's another more important reason that probably only lawyers will appreciate. If eBay were to actively police auctions, and especially if they advertised that fact, then lawyers would argue that eBay is, in essence, vouching for the authenticity of the items. Thus, eBay would open itself up to lawsuits from swindled buyers. The legal principle is "implied warranty." This isn't my idea. You can read a discussion of it in Scott Travers' book, The Coin Collector's Survival Manual. See page 219 in the 6th edition.

I don't know if these lawsuits would succeed in all states, but lawyers are good at finding states that have laws sympathetic to consumers, and that's where the lawsuits would be filed. eBay is just following the advice of their lawyers, and protecting the interests of their shareholders, like all companies are supposed to do.

Buyer beware.

 

The problem I see, is the members of the CFE Group collectively report these fraudulent auctions but Ebay is not doing anything about them and by us reporting them, they are now aware they are "possibly" fraudulent and by not reacting, they become a partner in the fraud and are now part of the problem, not the solution. What it's going to take is legislation to place liability on Ebay to get them to do something about the fraud, since, if you think about it, fraud makes them money and the old saying, biting the hand that feeds you, comes into play.

I'd love to know what percentage of Ebay's revenues come from fraud but we'll never know that but we do know, without a doubt, that Ebay makes money off fraud and they turn a blind eye to it and all members here need to know they don't have anyone looking out for them on Ebay but themselve's! The rule of thumb should be - Don't bid! - and don't bid until you can prove it's worthy of bidding on and it doesn't hurt to get a second opinion! :secret:

The only thing that will make Ebay do anything about the fraud (besides legislation) is if we stop buying because without the buyers, the sellers won't sell and the listing fees alone won't keep Ebay afloat. :whistle:

Ribbit

 

First, the seller's pics are not good enough to properly see the tells, but that alone is a critical aspect. Ask yourself this question:

If I were selling a 5G to 15G coin on Ebay, would I put up awesome pics or crappy ones? :whistle:

From that, a new question emerges:

Why would someone put up crappy pics of a multi-thousand dollar coin? :kewl:

Answer: To hide something!

Considering it has the ding EXACTLY where the ding is on these counterfeits and the pics suck, that's all it takes for me to know this is a counterfeit.

So to answer your question of how I can tell that 1795 DBD is a fake - deductive reasoning!

Ribbit

Ps: This counterfeit is what brought me to CoinTalk and to understand this, look here:

http://www.cointalk.com/forum/t35169/?highlight=1795

The pics there are some of the best you will see of this counterfeit. :kewl: Also, thanks to CoinTalk, I never did purchase that coin so I got lucky but as you can tell, there are bids on the current fake so not everyone knows about these counterfeits.

 

OK, that makes more sense, because jsut seeing that auction with those pics it wouldn't have tipped me off. Of course if I was really in the market for it I would have been more carefull. This is why on something I haven't had a chance to examine several specimins of, like 3 leggers or 09 svdbs I would only buy slabbed.

 

You also have to watch out for counterfeit slabs. :whistle:

Generally speaking, it ain't safe to buy online but if you do your homework, the odds are better.

Ribbit

 

Here's an interesting one:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=280312130763

While I cannot tell if it's authentic, a good friend said it appeared to be an electrotype copy that's fairly common and he knows more about these than I do, plus, the pics are lousy, but poor pics are the best way to hide a serious problem. :whistle:

I would have loved to have bid on it but I can't afford a several hundred dollar copy and if you will read carefully, they do a good job of not saying it's authentic but also not saying it's a copy but it's worded in a way to say - "Buy at your own risk!" Plus, they won't accept a return on the item, so that was all it took to keep me away.

Ribbit

 

Everything about that says run away!!!!

 

This gal is the counterfeit queen. I reported them all. She only lists them for 24 hours with a "Buy it now.
Here's what she has now.

http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZcoalcounycoinz


Here's past sales.

http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISA...iid=120380186483&sspagename=VIP:feedback:2:us

 

At least she's selling them as counterfeits. But they are in violation of Ebay's Coin & Stamp Policy, for not being HPA compliant, so I posted her store on the CFE Group for the guys to report her. They don't like HPA non-compliant counterfeit sellers. :whistle:

Ribbit

 

So how do they continue to have 99-100% feedback with alot of transactions?

 

Some people just don't know what they get.