cold hard reality

I haven't bothered to read every word of this thread, but some of the opinions about ebay are a bit off base, at least in regard to reality.

At any givem time, there are MILLIONS of auctions on eBay. There is no was they could police them all, even if they wanted to, which they DON'T.

Ebay is a platform for seller and buyer to meet - that is about it. Even if eBay wanted to police everything, would you trust them? They don't just "sell" coins, they "sell" Beanie Babies, cars, 12th century Chinese porcelain, shrunken heads, used bride's maids dresses, stamps, and about 10,000 other things. There is no way they could be an expert in all those fields.

Of course, eBay does not really "sell" anything anyway. It is all between the seller and buyer. We would all like there to be more accountability, but unfortunately that is not going to happen. That is not what we would like to see, but it is reality. So, we need to work within that framework.

Any by the way, when eBay does try to crack down, it is usually misplaced. For example, since my IP address is in Germany, I can not see anything related to WWII (in the militaria section, anyway), but, like everyone else, I can buy all the counterfeit Trade Dollars I want.

 

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LETSBUYCOINS wrote: "BOTTOM-LINE: Some lessons: If you buy coins in cardboard holders, grade them yourself. Dont pay $45 for a coin that is overgraded by the dealer, and grades very fine with a $20 grey sheet price."

Whether purchasing raw or slabbed coins, I could not agree with this sentiment more... Buy the coin and not the holder. The grade that has been assigned a particular coin, be it in a PCGS slab, an ANACS slab or raw in a 2x2 holder is one individual or organizations opinion of the grade and by extension the value of the coin.

If as a collector you have not yet acquired the knowledge necessary to accurately grade coins, be they mint state or circulated, then find dealers whose grading you can trust or purchase slabbed coins to be safe.

LETSBUYCOINS wrote: "STAY AWAY from all slabs that are not PCGS or NGC. I had two PCGS slabs with MS-62 grades. THe guys at the show jumped on those. They all love the PCGS slabs. The other lower-tier grading company slabs, I was told were two or three points over graded. I disagreed, or rather I wanted to disagree. But you cant argue with dealers who buy and sell all the time. And when you want the quick cash, you have to take their appraisal. "

If you are new to the hobby and looking to ensure that the coins you purchase are accurately graded, it is recommended that you still with PCGS, NGC, ICG and ANACS. In many cases coins slabbed by other less reputable companies are in fact overgraded by several points.

Once you have become knowledgeable about grading mint state coins, there is nothing wrong with purchasing coins slabbed by other companies as long as you are buying the coin and not the grade. In other words, if the slab says MS67 and you believe the coin is MS65 then pay MS65 money.

LETSBUYCOINS wrote: "The coin collecting hobby is a screwed up hobby. I STILL say theres too many grades. And dont tell me about the ANC grading guide. That is no help."

I disagree. More grades for mint state coins mean less pricing deviation in each grade. Less grades means a wider price range per grade which would result in more difficulty for the average collector to determine what is a "fair price" for a particular coin/grade.

With the current implementation of the Sheldon Scale the dealer and or authentication company is forced to more clearly define (by the assigning of a grade) how they have determined the selling price. Without this definition, imagine how much MORE FAMILIAR the average collector would have to be with the grading process.

LETSBUYCOINS wrote: "Theres no precise guide that tells you the difference between a weak strike, and circulation wear; or the difference between circulation wear and bag marks."

No, their is no precise guide that tells you how to tell the difference between a weak strike and circulation wear. This is an ability that comes with experience and knowledge.

LETSBUYCOINS wrote: "Or how big the bagmarks should be for a given grade. OR wear the bagmarks are allowed, for a given grade."

Assuming you are referring to mint state coins, there are books out there. Check out this thread: http://www.cointalk.org/showthread.php?t=6733

LETSBUYCOINS wrote: "Dont PAY MS prices on loose coins."

I do not make a habit of purchasing antique watches because I do not know the first thing about them. If I was going to purchase one, I would do some from a reputable dealer. I would not attempt to purchase on eBay, or at a flea market, or from some guy on the corner selling watches.

If you do not have the prerequisite experience and knowledge to accurately grade and value raw (uncertified and unslabbed) coins than avoid purchasing them until you know your stuff. In the mean time, stick with certified material and/or raw material from a knowledgeable and reputable dealer.

If you do have the knowledge to accurately assign a mint state grade and you run across a raw coin with an attractive price for the grade, then do not hesitate to purchase it!

LETSBUYCOINS wrote: "LOCAL DEALER: Again: I will scream it forever: TOO MANY GRADES!! DEALERS OVERGRADE; AND LOOSE COINS are just too risky to buy on ebay."

Are you the type of individual who assigns character traits to entire races or religions as easily as you assign negative traits to all dealers? Hopefully sometime you'll stop by my table at a show. When you see an accurately graded coin at a fair price I will enjoy excersing my option not to sell it to you.

As a dealer I take offense at your statement, and I am certain that many of my reputable, knowledgeable and accurately grading dealer friends will as well.

LETSBUYCOINS wrote: "You said you take what you read on ebay as the OPINION of the seller? WHAT DOES THAT MEAN???? DOES IT MEAN you DO buy loose coins on ebay? Or you DONT buy loose coins on ebay??? Im talking about EBAY!! I love ebay!!! I will go back to buying antique pocket watches on ebay. But Im not buying any more loose coins on ebay."

It means that the grade assigned a coin is an opinion of the seller and/or authentication company. If you agree, and the price is fair, buy the coin. If you disagree, and/or the price is not fair, move on.

LETSBUYCOINS wrote: "The dealers grade low when they buy, and jack up the grade when they sell. So many coins are "Sliders." The dealers slide it to their advantage. Maybe some of you dont want to accept the truth."

Here we go again, more unfair generalizations. Yes, many dealers behave as you indiciate. However, there are many more who purchase coins at very fair prices and accurately grade them when doing so. If you having a problem with unscrupulous dealers it is because you are too ignorant or lazy to seek out more reputable honest individuals to do business with. Or, possibly because of your less than pleasant attitude and personality, they are choosing not to do business with you.

LETSBUYCOINS wrote: "You're all collectors. The dealers will eat you alive, on loose coins. No Im not gonna calm down. The %$$#@!!!@# hobby is full of a bunch of $$))(%(%*(###@@@. I'll still collect coins. Ill start buying PCGS and NGC slabs. Ill start carrying grey sheets with me, and I wont be afraid to insult an occasional dealer"

Do us all a favor friend and find another place to post your rants and raves. This hobby is full of fun, interesting and educated individuals - both dealers and collectors. If it were not, and it were instead full of people like yourself, I would be finding another business/pasttime.

LETSBUYCOINS wrote: "The grey sheet is wholesale AND retail. The grey sheet has a bid column and an ask column. The bid column is what the dealer will pay. The ask column is what the dealer will sell for. The grey sheet is the only price-guide. Its not like the car industry. With the automobile business, you have the blue-book, and the black-book. Blue-book is wholesale, AKA what the dealer will pay, and Black-book is what the dealer will sell on his lot for. We dont have two guides in the coin hobby. the grey sheet is it!! The grey sheet bid and ask. Bid is wholesale. Ask is Retail."

The CDN or Grey Sheet is a wholesale price guide. It illustrates the prices accurately graded coins may trade for between dealers. IT IS NOT A RETAIL PRICE GUIDE.

LETSBUYCOINS wrote: "the hobby is designed to allow dealers to screw people. the coin grading rules are ambiguous. Too many grades. tpoo much leeway for dealers to jack up grades on the resale."

Your right, the hobby is designed to screw people. All dealers are @#$&*$*s and no matter what you do, everyone is going to get one over on you. So, do us all a favor and find another hobby.

 

Is this because of German Law, against the Nazi's?
Just wondering!

 

Yeah, but in typical eBay fashion, they have messed up. German law only forbids NEW Nazi stuff. Old, historical mementos are perfectly OK and on sale in coin and antique stores everywhere. But, eBay banned original items as well (ALL Nazi stuff) for sale to anyone in Germany, which is an incorrect interpretation of the law.

As a matter of fact, in the coming weeks I will buy a handful of Nazi silver coins and a WWII German helmet here in Munich.

 

I've always heard that vintage wwii items AND new items bearing the swastika were both banned in Germany. Guess I heard wrong. I'm glad I learned something new today
Nick

 

Now this is the kind of thread that gets the old ticker going in the morning!

 

Why is that, Geod? HeHe

 

If I could just read one of these type of threads EVERY morning, it would give me a burst of adrenadine (sp) and I wouldn't need to spend money on my morning coffee. Then I would have more money to spend on improperly over-graded coins (raw or slabbed)!

Everyone - Thanks for starting my day off on the right foot

 

LETSBUYCOINS: After rereading this thread a few times, it seems to me that Ebay is not the target you should be shooting for. Target your congressman.

Either way, when you want the burden of policing/thinking put on someone else's shoulders, it costs. Personally, I'd rather read more books than pay higher taxes or Ebay premiums.

Bottom line: Everything in this world is only worth what some sucker is willing to pay for it.

 

And let's make that the final word on this subject, so we can get back to discussing coins.