An odd “1806 Great Britain Penny”

Discussion in 'World Coins' started by Coinsandmedals, Dec 11, 2020.

  1. The Eidolon

    The Eidolon Well-Known Member

    Here's a more oblique angle. It's hard to get the edge in focus with a regular camera. I had to up the brightness so you can see the diagonal grooves in the center. You can see it's a bit cockeyed. The grooved band is lower on the right than the left side. Sorry about the ugly tablecloth fibers. edge 2.jpg
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2020
    Coinsandmedals likes this.
  2. Avatar

    Guest User Guest



    to hide this ad.
  3. Coinsandmedals

    Coinsandmedals Well-Known Member

    I took a few more pictures of the specified areas, and they seem damning to the contemporary counterfeit explanation. Note the slight remnants of the jewels and the striation under the "K." on the obverse. The reverse seemingly demonstrates the typical location of the berries in the olive branch. The edge pictures are far from perfect, but I did my best with the time I had to spare.

    IMG_0001.JPG IMG_0007.JPG IMG_0006.JPG IMG_0003.JPG edge 1.JPG edge 2.JPG edge 3.JPG edge 4.JPG edge 5.JPG
     
    The Eidolon likes this.
  4. robp

    robp Well-Known Member

    I'm sticking with environmental damage. It could be electrolytic, but not mechanical IMO.
     
    Coinsandmedals likes this.
  5. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    robp, posted: I'm sticking with environmental damage. It could be electrolytic, but not mechanical IMO."

    :facepalm: IMHO, you have just posted amazingly ______:muted:_______ misinformation! ;)

    Harsh whizzing is SO OBVIOUS to anyone who sees it that I don't even image it anymore; however, when I get some time I'll look.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2020
  6. robp

    robp Well-Known Member

    If you look at the brooch, despite there being no jewel detail left, there is still copper oxide(?) left within the circle. Looking at the olive branch or the A in the legend for example, some of the relief is wafer thin and thinner than you would expect, which is consistent with corrosion. The edge can now be seen to still have deposits within the finer detail. All those deposits are a result of the environmental conditions the coin was subjected to. How the deposits were removed is immaterial, because the loss of detail is down to chemical processes and that is where the damage was done. Nobody took an unworn mint state or close to coin and decided to tool it, whether by hand or with an electric tool. It was damaged to begin with.

    We'll probably have to agree to differ except on the point that it doesn't look good.
     
    Coinsandmedals and The Eidolon like this.
  7. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    robp, posted: "If you look at the brooch, despite there being no jewel detail left, there is still copper oxide(?) left within the circle. Looking at the olive branch or the A in the legend for example, some of the relief is wafer thin and thinner than you would expect, which is consistent with corrosion. The edge can now be seen to still have deposits within the finer detail. All those deposits are a result of the environmental conditions the coin was subjected to. How the deposits were removed is immaterial, because the loss of detail is down to chemical processes and that is where the damage was done. Nobody took an unworn mint state or close to coin and decided to tool it, whether by hand or with an electric tool. It was damaged to begin with.

    We'll probably have to agree to differ except on the point that it doesn't look good."

    Disagreement is fun. It's how folks with an open mind learn from others. When anyone has looked/collected enough COPPER alloy coins they will recognize that the green and black residues on your coin are dirt, and corrosion products. This is commonly seen on old copper and would probably come right off.

    If you still wish to call the coin corroded, that's fine as no one knows what it actually looked like before it was harshly whizzed and any possible corrosion was removed will a large amount of original surface. In cases as this, the whizzing describes the coin better than saying it has some rim dings.
    ;)

    PS you may wish to tell us how a "CHEMICAL " reaction can "PUSH UP" wave-like RIDGES on a metal surface.

    Hint: It can't! :yawn:
     
  8. mrbadexample

    mrbadexample Well-Known Member

    Green and black residues don't come right off my copper coins. What's your secret? :shifty:
     
  9. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    mrbadexample, asked: "Green and black residues don't come right off my copper coins. What's your secret? :shifty:

    This "snarky" post of yours is actually a very sensible question. ;)Unfortunately, what you ask is the product of years of experimentation that allowed me to help start the Numismatic Conservation Service at NGC. While what you ask in proprietary, I have instructed several coin dealers the "art" of conserving coins but the class is expensive.

    What I can tell you is that IMO, copper is the hardest metal to fool with. Some types of contamination are virtually impossible to remove w/o leaving a trace. Other things like those on the OP's coin can be removed.

    BTW, one unconfirmed rumor I've heard is some folks are employing lasers to remove spots.
     
Draft saved Draft deleted

Share This Page