1879 Pattern Dollar

Hoping someone could offer a suggestion on a Pattern piece I recently acquired.

It is (I believe) a 1879 dollar (J-1621). It came raw from a very significant 18th century collection. As you can see, it has problems. The original old holder identified it as the lead variety and possibly unique. The Judd book lists a lead variety as sold at Bowers and Merena in Nov 1985 as a PF Corr.

I sent it to NGC but they refused to grade it due to condition. I then sent it to PCGS. They returned it as a “Counterfeit”. Think they be mistaken on this one.

My question is – Does anyone know who would be considered an expert in this area?

Would love to get another opinion.


Many thanks - Pete

 

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Wow, that's too strange .

 

Can we get @Fred Weinberg here?

 

TBH it looks as though it was sand-blasted

 

Fred is THE error expert, not patterns.

Edit to add:

@Pete Doelger
Does it meet the exact dimensions and weight of the Judd listing? It's easy to make cast lead copies, but many times the metal will shrink slightly as it cools. I can't tell from the picture, but there might be casting pits on the surfaces. You should check it closely. A die struck lead planchet/blank is not going to show pits

 

Is a pattern not an error?

 

I don't have the auction catalogs from back then any longer. Sold all my catalogs six or seven years ago to a book dealer friend and I know he's gotten rid of most of them; maybe I should have kept them. Nah, many of them have been digitized.

 

The J-1621 is a unique coin. I would take the opinion of PCGS. I highly doubt you have the real one.

 

Here's the auction I think you're referring to -- the Abe Kosoff collection. I didn't see a lead J-1621 in that sale, but there were some J-1617s. The lead J-1621 is unique and seems to have been sold by Kosoff in 1955. If yours is lead, it should be heavy. What's the weight? Can you post the original old holder? I assume you meant 19th century collection, not 18th. The real one was likely made under the table for a collector in the 19th century, and any holder for it was probably made by a more recent owner.

At any rate, I'd trust PCGS on this one.

 

Sorry, but I tend to agree with furham. The PMD (Post Mint Damage) looks odd like it was deliberate. Be safe not sorry wait for more experts to chime in. My opinion only, I'm not an expert. Very best of luck to you.

 

Here is some info for you
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pattern_coin

 

Thanks! I had no idea that these were test coins... very similar to the test dollars I assume

 

messydesk -
Many thanks for the info. I did find it in the Kosoff 11/1985 auction. It was lot #1151. Described as J-1621. Possibly unique - very heavily oxidized and corroded. No image, as clear photography was not possible.
It was listed in the auction as weighing 298.6 grains. My piece weighs 23.6 grams. Does not seem to match up per weight, although the description seems to be identical. The original collection this piece was in contained many 19th century Proof pieces. I valued it at $100M+

Very strange. Don't know why someone would attempt to counterfeit a known unique piece. Do you have any references regarding the sale by Kosoff in 1955?

Thanks again - Pete

 

Looks like it was pulled out of a cement mixer

 

Is it magnetic?

 

Yours is about 4 grams too heavy, then. I imagine that Kosoff's piece was barely identifiable, but for the provenance. Maybe I misread the provenance and he acquired it in 1955. Here's a reference.

The Chinese are counterfeiting everything, including patterns

 

the only Pattern coin I can find ....

 

Nope - not magnetic.

 

Try this

https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts/category/patterns/15

 

More of this....