1909D $5 Indian Gold Piece

Hey Gang, so here is the story behind this coin. My sister in-law and her siblings found this coin in her late mother's jewelry box. It was found in the envelope that I have photographed below. The envelope itself is only 4"x2.5". Inside was a small flat card and glued on that was a tiny envelope that is 1"x1". It is original but has no date on it. Inside that envelope was a 1909D $5 Indian Gold piece. My sister in law said that she does not know the history behind the coin other than it was her moms.

She left the coin with me to ascertain its value so if she and her family were to sell it, they would know a reasonable price to ask. Grading gold has always been tough for me. At first glance it appeared to be MS condition, but after really looking at it I would suspect that it was AU. I took it to several coin shops today in town and showed it to some trusted local collectors. The general consensus was that it was XF to possibly AU. What concerned nearly everyone was the fact that there is this faint ring going around the coin on both sides and that some of the stars on the obverse had their points cut off. In addition to the thought that it was at one time used as a jewelry piece, the authenticity of the coin was questioned. I took it home were I weighed and measured it. It met all government specs of the coin.

I spoke with my sister in law tonight and she stated that she did not have anymore info on the coin other than how and where it was found and what it came in. I also thought it was the 1909P which had just over 600,000 minted, but instead noticed the D on the reverse and saw where it was the most minted out of the series with 3.4 million minted.

Any thoughts and comments on value, authenticity and grade would be helpful. Thanks.

 

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These are impossible for me to grade from a photo, and hard as heck in-hand.

I'd venture to guess the coin is AU. The fields show circulation nicks and ticks, and the cheek shows some wear too.

Tell us, does it cartwheel in-hand?

Wonderful coin!

 

no no brother lead that is counterfeit. joe send it over to me and ill pay you face for it.














































heheh j/k nice coin tell us are there luster breaks i dont see wear in the traditional places. i highly recommend not selling it and buying it from your sister in law. if you must sell place it in the CT open section

 

That was one of the first things i looked for. On the obverse, there weren't any, but on the reverse there were hints of luster and some cartwheeling, but many breaks as well. I have seen some XF coins still contain hints of luster like this.

Hey Spock, any thoughts on value? or what you would pay for this?

Also, does anyone else see the rings around the obverse and reverse of the coin? Any thoughts? Comments? Jewelery piece?

 

The 'rings' are not unusual, I have seen them on other pieces.

I think (poorly at times) that it was a process of minting this unusual design.

 

Sorry, G, but I believe you're incorrect....these coins have that bezel-like circle from time to time straight from the mint. Here's one example:
http://coins.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=1117&Lot_No=2175#photo

Here are a bunch more:
http://coins.ha.com/common/search_results.php?Ne=304&Ntt=1909&Ntk=SI_Titles&N=51+790+231+398

 

I agree with Leadfoot. It looks like the same thing to me.

 

I collect Indian $2.5s I see these "ring things" occasionally. I'm told it has to do with die buckling. As-made. Certainly not a "problem" coin... but anything which affects eye appeal affects value.

 

hey GD where do u see wear the earings and the eagle wing top all look good to me . i agree about the rings those happened post mint might or might not be brazel but post mint. for value Joe ill say about $250 which is y u should keep it in the family

 

Wanna bet a dollar?

Don't take my word for it -- let's see what some other folks have to say about it...

http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=26&threadid=705360

 

FWIW, former NGC grader and long-time dealer, Mark Feld, just sent me an e-mail:

"Unless I'm missing something in the images, it looks as made to me and I see quite a few like that."

G, I love you buddy, and I respect you and your opinion -- but you're wrong on this one.

 

My first impression was that it had been in a bezel but after seeing the pictures of others of the type I'll say it was not a jewelry piece. However the overall flatness (lack of luster) of the fields and multitude of scratches make me think the grade would be AU.

One thing that interests me more is the mark extending from the tip of the top feather up through the top right star. It looks like a hefty scratch, but it appears to go under the star without damaging it. It isn't a die break because a break would make an outward mark which would also affect the star. A closer detail picture of that area would help.

 

The coin is incuse, and hits that span a device element but are not deep enough to get to the incluse area would appear like that. Said a bit differently, the hit goes "over" the star, not "under" it....Mike

 

I have seen a few of these coins with the ring around the border and with the stars impaired and since these coins have no traditional raised border I think it's fairly common to see those rings. Most of that series sells for almost $400 graded by PCGS.
Check their website but don't consider it "gospel" www.pcgs.com

I'd pay $300 for it.

 

In addition to being of the opinion that the coin was not damaged subsequent to being struck, I believe that it should grade AU, at a minimum. I can't tell from the images if it makes uncirculated or not, but I can't entirely discount that possibility, either. A dealer's having assigned an XF grade strikes me as either being unknowledgeable or trying to take advantage of a would-be seller.

 

I would of sworn it was from a bezal , but after reading the posts hear , I have my doubts , That's why I love this site , learn something new all the time , Joe I'd say AU-58 sells for $300-350 . I'd keep it in the family .
Rusty