US coin woes...

BTW, I have some fantastic pieces on there way back from PCGS. Once they arrive, I will post the pics and see who can identify the errors. Should be fun.

 

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Great!
Look forward to seeing them.

 

My opinion is that some of the fascination with the new low value (and soon to be absolutely worthless) pot metal coinage is being drummed up by large dealers who can get the stuff for face and foist it off at a markup and by the mint which is showing a trend toward Isle of Man type coin huckstering.

I sell coins directly to collectors and haven't a single ordinary circulation SQ or Jefferson in my inventory. The S-mint 90% silver proofs are the only SQs which show me any indication that they're going to hold their value past this early phase of hucksterism for the circulation issues.

As to bullion coins, the fascination with them you mention is something I've only seen online in discussion groups. The customers I talk to are interested only in circulation issues of gold coins, particularly US gold coins. The prices of US gold circulation coins is prohibitive for many collectors, though. We actually had a madman as president once who declared all gold coinage to be the property of a cartel of private banks and most of that coinage was taken from circulation and melted. That has made what should have been a relatively ordinary line of collecting out of the budgetary range of many hobbyists.

I agree with you about the beauty of the designs of the US gold issues. in a perfect world, most collectors would be able to indulge in at least a few examples of these coins.

What I sell most are Barbers of all three denominations, Walkers, Mercs and pre '64 Washingtons. Morgan and Peace dollars are within the means of most of us here and are avidly collected also. The same is true for precious metal commemorative issues, especially the half dollars.

I've never bothered with Lincoln cents and never will (outside of brokering a bag purchase for a customer), ditto Jeffersons outside the silver alloy war issues. Neither design is in the least interesting to me, though most of my customers do have collections of them. Roosevelt dimes are of little interest among those who buy from me and I can't see why they would arouse much enthusiasm except for those who buy rolls of 90% silver to hoard. The design is rather silly, as any design whipped up and pushed into issue in a hurry would be. I mean, the face of Joe Stalin's sockpuppet on the obverse with the brand logo of a match company on the other has to be one of the least inspiring designs on any US coins I can think of. it was pushed into issue right after the death of FDR as a means of deifying him to stop serious questioning of the changes he made in our form of government, IMO.

Anyway, not all Americans are following the trends you noticed, though some newcomers to the hobby seem to be. Interesting post, BTW. Thanks for starting the thread.

 

I think you're reading a bit much into this, is it not enough that i just like the design? I mean that eagle reverse is a beauty, but i like symmetry.

That and the first ever US coin i ever had was a 1944 Washer, so i always feel fond towards the issue. Everytime anyone mentioned the US, i'd think back to that quarter, for me i think the Washer Quarter symbolises the US, that and he was your first president afterall!

And Mr Jefferson just doesn't look very appealing on the front of the nickel coin, looks a bit stern and a bit nasty.

 

Actually, George Washington wasn't the first president. He was simply the first president elected after the ratification of the US Constitution. There had been a line of earlier presidents under the Articles of Confederation.

Having a favorite coin type doesn't really have to be explained, does it? I have favorite coin types among the pre-WWII Baltic nation and middle Europe coins which I would be unable to really explain. Sometimes, something in a design just attracts me.

Also, many of my jewelry customers agree with you on the Washington quarter. It's the number one silver coin for framing in the year of the wearer's birth. I have two different frame designs for that coin and they're my biggest coin bezel sellers by far.

 

Sylvester, thanks for sharing your interest with George. In alot of ways George does symbolize our county for with alot of attitude he rose from moderate wealth to being one of the richest men in the country and from being an unsuccessful officer in the French and Indian War to being a leader who led a new nation against the most powerful force of that day. American attitude with a beer. The man did like to party and cmbdii my friend, I don't have a history book in front of me but wasn't George Washinton the President of the First Continential Congress before being elected Commander or something of the Continential Army at the Second Continential Congress?

 

"wasn't George Washinton the President of the First Continential Congress before being elected Commander or something of the Continential Army at the Second Continential Congress?"


Beats me, Andy. I'd have to look it up. We tend to forget that the states predate the nation and that there was a union of states before the Constitution which also had the office of president. I can't name the earlier presidents without looking them up either, so don't get me started. You know how I get. ;-)

 

Here is the list:

List of Presidents
The following men served as the President of the Continental Congress:


Peyton Randolph (September 5, 1774 - October 21, 1774) and
Henry Middleton (October 22, 1774 - October 26, 1774)
Peyton Randolph (again) (May 10, 1775 - May 23, 1775)
John Hancock (May 24, 1775 - October 30, 1777)
Henry Laurens (November 1, 1777 - December 9, 1778)
John Jay (December 10, 1778 - September 27, 1779)
Samuel Huntington (September 28, 1779 - February 28, 1781)
The following men served as President of the United States in Congress Assembled:
†Samuel Huntington (March 1, 1781 - July 6, 1781)
Thomas McKean (July 10, 1781 to November 4, 1781)
John Hanson (November 5, 1781 to November 4, 1782)
Elias Boudinot (November 4, 1782 to November 3, 1783)
Thomas Mifflin (November 3, 1783 to June 3, 1784)
Richard Henry Lee (November 30, 1784 to November 23, 1785)
John Hancock (November 23, 1785 to June 6, 1786)
Nathaniel Gorham (June 6, 1786 to November 13, 1786)
Arthur St. Clair (February 2, 1787 to October 29, 1787)
Cyrus Griffin (January 22, 1788 to March 4, 1789)
†On March 1, 1781 the title of the office changed, but Samuel Huntington remained in the chair

Here is the link to the website for all the continental congress information.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President_of_the_Continental_Congress

 

Thanks National Dealer for the information. I took a second and looked up George and he was the presiding officer of the Constitutional Convention and only a delegate at what was being discussed. Still I say. keep George on the quarter just change the design. Have him as an action figure. New Jersey got the right idea on that one.

 

While I would love to see the presidents taken off of our currency, I think it would be great to see commems honoring these figures. Unlike today, these men took an idea and formed it into a great nation. They put their lives on the line for what they believed. Today we hide behind the very freedoms they brought forth.
Most of these men lost all they had to start this nation, and sadly most are forgotten to history.
It is said, that a nation that forgets its history is doomed to repeat it.

 

Isn't it enough having the Presidents on the bills? I mean even if the nickel was redesigned radically, Jefferson will still be on the $2 bill, and it's a much better portrait on that. (looks less like Jebadiah Springfield a la Simpsons.)

 

Would anyone here risk death by hanging, to overthrow an oppressive government?
That's the kind of courage and foresight it should take to be honored as a man among men.

 

I think that they should be taken off of the bills also. Take a look at early currency this country produced. Absolutely beautiful! The vivid colors and scenes were inspiring. Now, we have by far the ugliest, most mundane currency of the world. (In my opinion of course). If anyone would take a few minutes and look over the educational notes and compare them to todays offerings, I think that they would agree.

 

You know that I agree about the status of these men. We are a country full of complainers.
Everyone knows what is wrong, but no one does anything about it. If everyone would read your signature line quoting Patrick Henry , we would see what kind of men these were.
For the statements made by these men were not done in hiding. They put their lives in their beliefs.

I just want them honored in a different way.

 

I guess we are a nation of complainers because of the founding fathers and of those who laid it on the line for the type of environment where complaining wouldn't get one called an enemy of the state or a nonbeliever which of course brings death in many parts of the world today. I agree with Jody in that the founding fathers must stay. I also agree with you, National Dealer about new coin designs. I also think you have advocated using coins instead of bills. Well it has been a while since I really had cash but isn't George and Abe already on two bills as welll as two coins, That opens up two new coin designs right there. Now if we converted all bills into coins and all coins into silver and gold, I believe that would make all of us happy.
P.S. I'm not sure yet about all coins being silver and gold, I just wanted to make our friend cmdii happy as well.

 

I can't agree with that. Almost nobody knows what is wrong and most don't have clue what's being said when someone mentions what's wrong. You've stated more than once that the Constitution is designed to change with the times, which isn't at all correct. It contains the process by which it can be amended, but our politicians don't bother to amend the document, they just ignore it. There are plenty of us doing something about this situation in every election while the TV addicted majority shakes pompoms for one or the other of the two annointed candidates in each race.

Sorry to be the doom and gloomer here, but until the currency is backed by something other than snickers and sly grins it doesn't matter at all what imagery is printed on it or what color it is. Until the coins have some intrinsic value, they may as well have images of cartoon characters on them.

Our monetary system is heading for a crash the likes of which the world has never seen. What's coming will make the great depression of the '30s look like God's feast for the righteous by comparison and the "leaders" you've mentioned a few times before will make themselves rulers if an awful lot of Americans don't stand up to them.

If that's complaining, then call me a complainer. I'm working to reinstate the rule of law under the Constitution, which is the supreme law of the land. Making comments on what's wrong may sound like complaining to you but it beats petitioning the bureacrats for new coin designs.

 

It's funny, nobody ever thinks a depression is going to happen. That it is a thing of the past. All I know is that I don't know when. So cmbdii may be screaming that the sky is falling but sooner or later he'll be right for it always does and at that point having some gold on hand as well as a few other things might not be a bad idea. It's like stocking up before hurricane season ,even if the last 10 years were uneventful it doen't mean that this year the storm won't come.

 

I don't blame cmbdii for having an opinion, I just don't understand the point he is trying to make. Every great power has vanished from the earth. From the Persians to the Romans. They did not use fiat money as he likes to call it, yet they failed anyways. It is just a fact that all great powers will ruin themselves. People are greedy and power hungry. But the fact remains the same.

This forum is not a political debate. It is about a few people trying to help others learn about coins. There is too much negativity without contributing to it.

 

I suppose that if anyone proposes solutions, they're being negative. You like to claim that Americans are a bunch of complainers who don't offer any solutions, but when solutions are mentioned, then the person offering them is contributing to negativity.

Numismatics is as much a study of history, politics and economics as it is a study of coinage designs. How is it all right for you to express your opinion that our form of government is a democracy and it's wrong for me to point out your error?

No offense intended, but you're as prone to stick your political views into a discussions about coins as I am. Our views differ, but there is room for both views to be expressed.

I'm not trying to make you shut up. Why are you trying to shut me up? By the way, the Romans silver plated base metal coins and debased precious metal coins. That's a use of fiat money. Also, the United States was not founded as an empire and has no provision in its founding documents for becoming any "great power". We're supposed to be a union of free and sovereign states whose people have inalienable rights to property and the precious metal coinage prescribed in the Constitution is our property. Pointing that out is simply imparting knowledge to the other hobbyists here.

Maybe we would all benefit by including the neglected areas of numismatism in our studies rather than limiting ourselves to acquiring examples of the coinage and currency we study. One thing is certain; if there's to be no discussion of the why's of changes in coinage, then the wherefores become pointless.

I'm sorry that you take any disagreement with your politics as a personal affront. That's not at all what I intended. I apologize for having offended you.

 

I know i'm walking in a "mine field", but I just have one question for Andy. What do you mean New Jersey has the right idea? I'm clueless, maybe a stupid question and the answer is right in front of me, but I can't figure it out.