Is ICG really as bad as many people say?

I personally didn't see that, and I actually bought some notes graded by PCGS Currency. I think their reputation was pretty close to PMG.

It's ironic: NGC is considered #2 in coins but their PMG unit is #1 in currency.....PCGS is considered #1 in coins but their PCGS currency unit was #2.

Maybe they were, but the gaps are nowhere that big to other grading firms.

I also wonder if PCGS would have dropped currency grading had they known they'd be acquired and be looking for volume growth in 2021-2030.

 

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I would say that NGC and PCGS are in the pole position for grading and collectibles that is NOT based on size but on reputation and expertise.

Similar to Ferrari and Porsche.....anybody saying they would be "crushed" by larger GM, Volkswagen, BMW, or Ford over the decades would be dead wrong.

 

PCGS and NGC are like Sotheby's and Christies....it's a natural duopoloy and probably won't be cracked by any serious 3rd party entrant.

 

Well, some pretty smart guys just paid 3X FMV over a few months ago to buy the entire damn company.

That's a pretty good bet that they like PCGS and collectibles and our hobbies and it won't be dying anytime soon.

I wonder if they think PCGS can crack foreign markets.....

 

You're comparing retail, where margins are thin and competition is fierce and firms go out of business every few years, to a duopoly where margins are high and supply and demand reasonably balanced going forward.

TBTF doesn't apply here at all.

 

That's nothing unique to eBay. There's likely some inventory in some shops that has been there since before the internet

 

I know, I just still can't fathom these idiots asking 50-100% over completed deals for common items that keep reappearing at lower listing prices.

 

GoldFinger1969, posted: "I would say that NGC and PCGS are in the pole position for grading and collectibles that is NOT based on size but on reputation and expertise."

Similar to Ferrari and Porsche.....anybody saying they would be "crushed" by larger GM, Volkswagen, BMW, or Ford over the decades would be dead wrong."

Not the best example. AFAIK, Porsche (a formerly closely held family company) started to become very profitable and attempted to take over VW. They ended up as part of the VW conglomerate today.

 

@Lehigh96, I think you assumed my post was directed to you. It wasn't. It was to bring in a point of view to this discussion, namely, that one cannot know the future, and that history gives us examples of large business entities that were unable to weather changing conditions, while smaller entities did survive.

Take what you like, leave the rest.

Steve

 

IMHO, PCGS will not crack the market in Norway, the foreign country (albeit a small one) with which I am most familiar. NGC has, to some extent, but, as a whole the Norwegians seem to prefer their coins "un-intombed." That may change, too.

The reason I say PCGS will have difficulty cracking Norway's market is that I have seen grossly over-graded Norwegian coins in PCGS slabs. Yes, I know "it happens to all the TPGs," however, I see it far more often in PCGS than NGC. All my certified Norway coins are in NGC plastic. I had a few ICG also, and submitted them to NGC. The grades were identical.

My admittedly small sample size leads me to trust NGC and ICG over PCGS for my Norway collection.

Steve

 

This is true, but it involved some financial and stock chicanery and questionable trading practices.

The point remains: size doesn't crush all.

What would be interesting would be if ANACS or ICG were to get a well-heeled investor to finance marketing....agree to use NGC or PCGS slabs....and then maybe even consolidate operations or certain functions. You could have a "Super 3rd TPG" or 3rd and 4th.

ICG and ANACS with the same slabs fitting in storage stuff as PCGS/NGC could be a game-changer.

JMHO.

 

GoldFinger1969, posted: "What would be interesting would be if ANACS or ICG were to get a well-heeled investor to finance marketing...."

What you suggest has absolutely NOTHING to do with finances or marketing. I guess I did not make something I posted very clear. The company I work for is not interested in becoming #1 or even #2. We are stealing customers away from all the other services on a monthly basis - mostly due to the fact that we are able to serve them better.

I'll tell every one that at this time, a coin in a PCGS slab w/CAC sticker is usually the best to own/sell. However, I have found that many numismatists don't care what slab their coin is in.

 

Investing in updating the websites and in a registry, could help a lot

 

If they would invest in a registry they might do a better job at that

 

It was...but when they shut down and rebranded I think their registry went away and that is a big draw to a lot of collectors.

I know CU/PCGS has restarted their own currency grading but I don't think old "PCGS Currency" is allowed in their registry. The lack of registry will lesser the desirability to many collectors.

 

@Insider, why doesn't ICG have a registry? I understand you may not know...if you don't that's OK. But that does seem to be one of the most popular aspects of PCGS and NGC (as silly as that is).

 

Insider, if that is what your firm wants....more power to you. If you guys do your job and do it well and can make $$$....then you guys are clearly comfortable with what you have.

Congrats !

 

Allan, posted: "If they would invest in a registry they might do a better job at that."

I'll bet if you think about it, you'll come up with several great reasons why ICG does not offer/need that "Gimmick." Which I will say, is one of the best marketing ploys ever devised and on par with plastic slabs and photo services.

CamaroDMD, asked: "why doesn't ICG have a registry? But that does seem to be one of the most popular aspects of PCGS and NGC (as silly as that is).

Asked and answered.

 

Fair enough.

Let me ask you this then...since clearly ICG's company mission/goal isn't to get into the competitive games that PCGS/NGC have used to build their companies so large. What is ICG's mission? Most successful companies have a stated mission statement of some kind.

 

I think it's pretty obvious...they have a specialty niche among dedicated clients and certain segments of the hobby and they are happy just catering to them.

Not everything has to be grown.