anyone know what this is ?

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by williamtipton, May 13, 2005.

  1. williamtipton

    williamtipton New Member

    Im clueless.
    thanks in advance
     

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  3. williamtipton

    williamtipton New Member

    heres the obverse

    the first was the reverse, I believe
     

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  4. cdb1950

    cdb1950 Senior Member

    This is a Civil War token, I believe. A bit too worn for me to attribute, but I'll bet someone here will figure it out. These are very collectible and generally not too expensive. Since hard money became very scarce during the CW, many (hundreds) of merchants had their own 1c sized tokens made to be used in place of gov't issued coins. Most have some advertising on one side and a patriotic theme on the other.
     
  5. williamtipton

    williamtipton New Member

    thanks. :)

    possibly with this information I can dig up some more info on it :)
     
  6. williamtipton

    williamtipton New Member

  7. cdb1950

    cdb1950 Senior Member

    That's really cool! I'm glad you were able to locate another so quickly. Pretty neat tokens. They might also be called 'store cards'.
     
  8. williamtipton

    williamtipton New Member

    Whats REALLY cool is that my honey found this in a little town in NY state while digging up an area for a garden.

    It may very well be that the last person to touch it was during the civil war or something :)
     
  9. cwtokenman

    cwtokenman Coin Hoarder

    Cool find. Always an interesting path to trod when pondering where a coin has been or who may have held/spent it.

    The token you linked to is 1/2 the same as yours (the cannon side). The Indian is different, however. The token you linked to on ebay is id 81/351a, rarity R1. The token your honey found is 79/351a, also rarity R1 (over 5000 known, considered very common). In case you could not make out the date it is 1863. The one linked to on ebay has a book value of about $15, yours would be considerably less due to its poor condition, perhaps less than a dollar. Many high grade examples exist for both of these varieties of cwts.

    What you have is known as a patriotic Civil War token. These were less expensive for merchants to purchase than the custom ones with specific merchant advertising on them. Cost of the patriotics to merchants was about 1/3 cent each, so it was very profitable for merchants to use these tokens. They were readily accepted and used as "real" money, at least most of the time. Because of some instances where they were not redeemed by the issuer, CW tokens were the cause for Federal legislation prohibiting individuals and businesses from issueing money. The Federal government also noted the widespread acceptance of these tokens, and changed the US cents size/composition to pattern these tokens.

    The dies used to make your token are ascribed to the Scovill Manufacturing Company of Waterbury, Connecticut. This company is still in business, and I believe is listed among the Fortune 500. They struck both patriotics and store card Civil War tokens. Most of their dealings were with merchants stretching throughout most of the eastern states to about as far west as Ohio. But with the travels of so many soldiers/people of the day, they could likely also be found across a much wider area. As a side note, for a tally on similar dies, there are six crossed cannons of a style similar to yours, as well as 66 different Indian heads. Die 351 was only paired with 4 of the Indian heads, as well as one Liberty head die. A number of different metals were also used, with copper being the most common.


    The really scarce ones don't show up very often. Something like 75 to 80 per cent of the over 10,000 varieties of cwts have 20 or less examples known. If you wish to learn more, Bryon Kanzinger published "The Civil War Token Collectors Guide" in 2002. This book will give some good background overview type of info, listings for various theme collections, and provide the only comprehensive value guide that I have seen for cwts. However, this book will not enable you to identify cwts. For that, the Fulds published two books, one for patriotics, and one for store cards. These two books will provide identification tools and more in-depth info, but will cost more as well. If you decide to persue cwts, you will definitely need all three.
     
  10. williamtipton

    williamtipton New Member

    thanks for all that info.

    after looking on ebay, I think we're going to stick with collecting Condor and Civil War tokens.

    Ive been trying to narrow it down a bit and the token all seem really nice...collectible too :)
     
  11. braincramp

    braincramp New Member

    williamtipton:

    Please reconsider your flashing avatar. It is quite distracting. Thanks.
     
  12. Conder101

    Conder101 Numismatist

    < after looking on ebay, I think we're going to stick with collecting Condor and Civil War tokens. >

    Welcome to the world of CWT and Conders. Two very historical series, and to a large part inexpensive even in better condition. Yes some are expensive, but the majority are very affordable. (I don't collect CWT's, though I do find them interesting. I do collect Conders, and it amazes me that I can buy these two hundred year old large cent sized coppers, often with mintages under 50,000 in AU or Unc for $50 or less. If they were US large cents of the same era they would cost in five figures.)
     
  13. williamtipton

    williamtipton New Member

    Ive only bought a few condors so far.
    Ive gotten each for less than $10 and all are Ex, Fine so far.
    I think its the Gosport 1794 halfpenny that I like the best.
    It has amazing detail on the tall ship on the reverse for a 211 year old coin.
    :)
     
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