Instead of starting a new post, I have a question about misleading ebay sellers. My general question is can people open a slabbed coin through NGC or PCGS? I'm new around here and have a handful of graded coins, only from NGC and PCGS. My most recent purchase was an unexciting 1960 Small Date Lincoln proof, graded at a 67. The price seemed right so I bid and won. The seller sells only graded coins and has a 100 percent positive feedback so I had no worries. When I got the coin the other day it is apparent that someone has at least tried to tamper with the slab, there are some kind of "teeth" marks on the top and bottom edges, perhaps pliers or something? Are the NGC and PCGS slabs tamper proof?
I moved your post to a new thread because it really had nothing to do with the other thread. But to answer your question - yes, they are.
I'm not quite sure how an assertion can be made that any slab on the market today is tamper-proof. I have seen counterfeit coins in genuine slabs. They are tamper resistant, however, and I would say PCGS is probably the best, followed by NGC and the new ANACS holder. I won't go into detail about the methods I've heard of and/or suspect, as I don't want to encourage this type of activity, but suffice it to say that in my experience, they're certainly not tamper-proof. If you have concerns about the physical appearance of your slab, you might want to contact the seller.
So have I. Problem is they were put there by the TPG. I have yet to even hear of a slab that has successfully been opened and the coin inside replaced with a fake. You say you have, please tell us more. Not how it was done, but please provide examples.
It is possible to change the coin's appearance (toning) after it has been slabbed. I've never seen a slab opened and the coin removed/changed.
Until not too long ago they didn't exist, but it has now been well documneted that they do exist. Entirely different thing though.
You need a chain-saw to get most of these open in the first place. So when you put them back together, they can tell where they were cut with the saw.
I, myself, posted an 1893-S Morgan here not too long ago. It was fake, but it was in a real ANACS slab. Not only is it possible to open the slabs without leaving signs that can be detected, or nearly so, but occasionally the slabs are never sealed in the first place: "I bought and received a 1964, PCGS, PR68CAM cent today in a slab that pulled apart when I tried to remove the dealers sale sticker" http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=26&threadid=664145 All of this being said, it's not true just because I say it is. Admittedly, I am having trouble finding literature proving my point. But I know what I've heard, and I know for certain what I've seen.
The ANACS slabs, those a certain period anyway, would be the exception. They were defective and would come apart with no effort whatsoever. I literally mean just pick them up in your hands and take them apart. But those are the only ones I have ever heard of where it would be possible. As for the PCGS slab you mention, I know the OP, and don't doubt what he said happened actually happened. But that would be the only case. Sure, it is possible, however unlikely, that a PCGS slab got through the process without being sealed. What I think would be more likely is that he bought a counterfeit slab and didn't realize it. It was about that time, or shortly after, that the fake PCGS slabs were first noticed. Bottom line is this, it is not possible to open a slab without having it being very obvious.
At a coin show a dealer I know well showed me a slabbed coin. It was something like a worn out, scratched, dirty Dime in a slab that said it was a Lincoln Cent and graded as MS-62 I think. Can't remember to much about it but he did it to show if you know what your doing you can open a slab, change the coin, reseal the slab and no one can tell. I guess if I really checked it out in good lighting I might have found something, but it sure looked good.
lol Agreed. I've busted a couple open to put their contents in an album. With a hammer and a lot of prying by hand, I was eventually able to safely remove the contents undamaged but left a pile of broken debris behind. Along with probably close to 10 minutes of time. It was harder than I had expected. Maybe there's a trick to it. I couldn't tell you and don't need to know. I think it's a shame people would do that.
I suspect Carl that this slab you mention was nothing but a Coin World (or other similar type) coin holder. Other than the ANACS exception I mentioned (which they quickly remedied) slabs cannot be opened.
I would not say they are tamperPROOF, but they are extremely tamperRESISTANT. I do believe that with care and a lot of luck, from time to time you will be able to get a defectively sealed slab to open up in such a way that you can swap the coin and reseal it. And every now and then a slab does get sent out without having been sealed. Maybe one in every 50,000 slabs or more. But when someone does get one that opens up that way they like to swap the coin and show it to everyone to show that you can opening and swap the coin. So those very very few slabs get shown to a LOT of people which makes people think that it can be done more easily than it really is.
Are slabs...................... ...........we really don't have to worry about counterfeit or tampered slabs. all you have to remember is to make sure the slab has the CAC sticker!! ..........insert tongue in cheek anytime.
