Questions about new Faustina II denarius

This arrived in the mail today. The obverse isn't in the best condition, but I really liked the reverse. Not to be a walking stereotype, but I love children on coins just as much as animals! Plus, it was very inexpensive, so I couldn't resist.

Faustina II [Junior) (wife of Marcus Aurelius & daughter of Antoninus Pius), AR Denarius, Rome Mint, 161-175 AD. Obv. Draped bust right, hair in chignon behind, FAVSTINA AVGVSTA / Rev. Faustina as Fecunditas, standing front, head left, holding infant in each arm, two other young children standing beside her to left and right, holding onto her gown; FECVND AVGVSTAE. RIC III [Marcus Aurelius] 676, RSC II 95, Sear RCV II 5251. 17.0 mm., 3.29 g.



Here are my questions, which I hope one of our Faustina experts, like @Roman Collector, might know the answers to. First, the broad date range I put in my description of the coin comes from Sear, who usually narrows down the dates of coins when possible. But has anyone made an effort to narrow the date down further? And, does anyone know if the four children depicted on the reverse are intended to represent specific children of Faustina II and Marcus Aurelius -- just as on my Faustina II SAECVLI FELICIT denarius, issued in 161 AD, the two children on the reverse are generally believed to be the twins Titus Aurelius Fulvus Antoninus and Commodus? If so, which children?

Thanks!

 

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..idk exactly which ones...she was a fertile turtle.....RC knows & should ring in shortly...kool coin Donna!

 

I thought that was up for debate. But what's not up for debate is that portrait's beauty!
Wonderful detail on a wonderful hairstyle (I'm all about the hair with the empresses). Look at that opulence and yet humble style.
I've no children coins so I'll have to post one of my fav hairstyles:

 

Nice new purchase, Donna.
I also wonder who the four children are.
Here is one I got, with Commodus and Antoninus on reverse.

Faustina II, AD 161-175
AR Denarius, 3.3g, 17mm
Obv: FAVSTINA AVGVSTA, draped bust right
Rev: SAECVLI FELICIT, Commodus and Antoninus on throne.

 

great info in your orignal post...i learn more every day...i cant answer question on the kids, the place I got it had broad date range of just all her minted coins or reign of diva? (I am guessing thats it sorry.) still learning here...but I did figure out the coin I got, (alittle worn) it looked like the kids were the arms and the 2 on the bottom I thought were slaves at the start of my collecting non wisdom, Haha...did you mean it wasnt expensive and you couldn't resist? If what you wrote was right (it was expensive), I am headed in same direction with what my 2 kids call "dads bad spending habits", the more I collect the better coins I want.

 

I said it was inexpensive! The mere fact that a coin is expensive never makes it irresistible to me.

 

Oh ok...i thought I read it was and you couldn't resist. Thinking you meant you wanted coin even if it was expensive. Sounds like you got a good deal then. Hope someone can answer the kid question here. I would like to find out.

 

A beautiful example, with a very similar hairstyle to the FECVND AVGVSTAE coin except that the chignon is a bit smaller and doesn't have all the braids twisted around it.

Here's a picture of mine, which I like to think of as making a pair with my new one:

 

Very interesting coin Donna...

 

Yours is a beautiful example as well, Donna. Great portrait. Surely will make a good pair with your new purchase.

 

I have one of the OP type. I don't think we can know who the four children are unless some ancient source referenced this type and named the children on it, and I don't think that happened. I think a catalog writer would write they are the first four surviving children. If ancient sources name their kids in birth order and at some time four are alive, I'd put the two at the feet as the oldest and the two in arms as the youngest. That appears to be what Foss did.

Foss, Roman Historical Coins, page 143, gives names with birth and death dates (as far as is known) for 13 children of Faustina II. Two, Lucilla and Commodus, later have coins of their own. Then, about this type, he notes the two children at the feet are girls, and would be Annia Faustina (oldest child) and Lucilla (third oldest child) [the second child born died young] and the two in arms are Fadilla (seventh) and Cornificia (eighth) [the others died too young to be among four surviving children].
Commodus was a twin and the ninth child. Foss says the type with the two children and SAECVLI FELICITAS (type above) shows the twin boys Commodus and Antonius (born in 161 and died in 193 and 165 respectively.)



This is an aureus much like this with two children at her feet and only one child in her arms (Foss, Faustina the Younger #5).

If you like the connection between history and coin types, you will like Foss. I consult mine a lot.

 

I will have to look for it; thank you! And thanks for the possible identification of the children. Yours is a truly wonderful example. What nice shiny hair Faustina has! I wonder what kind of conditioner she used.

 

It also occurs to me that since Titus Aurelius Fulvus Antoninus and Commodus were apparently born in 161 AD as the ninth and tenth children (I've read, by the way, that Commodus was actually the younger twin, making him the tenth child), and presuming that the FECVND AVGVSTAE coin was issued before the twins were born and depicts only girls -- including the two youngest children then living -- then the date of the coin must be before 161 AD. Meaning that Sear was incorrect in dating it to the period 161-175 AD.

However, because Antoninus Pius died in March 161 AD (the twins were born in August), dating the coin before 161 would also mean that Faustina II's coins used the "Augusta" title for her even before her father died and Marcus Aurelius ascended to the throne. Unlless the coin were somehow designed and minted between March and August.

 

Beautiful coin, Donna!

The issues of the children of Marcus and Faustina are fascinating to collect.

I just got an example of the type a few months ago


I also have a similar type as an As, with two older children at her feet and only one in her arms (ugly, I know but the price was right)

And the infant Commodus and Titus Antoninus is a favorite of mine, both for the innocent and hopeful reverse, and the no-nonsense portrait of a lady who had already given birth ten times!


Scarcer are issues depicting the children's faces - this is said to depict Lucilla (right) and possibly Tiberius Aelius Antoninus (left), born in 152 and the first male to survive infancy, although he died at age 4 in 156


An equally tough prize is Annius Verus, the younger brother of Commodus who was made Caesar, but tragically died an early death following a surgery with non-sterile equipment

 

Wonderful!

 

Nice one, Donna. Here is one RIC number later, Fecunditas holding only one child - I think this is like ominus1's:



Faustina II Denarius
(145-161 A.D.)
Rome Mint
FAVSTINA AVGVSTA, diademed and draped bust right / FECVNDITAS, Fecunditas standing right, holding sceptre and child.
RIC 677 (Aurelius); BMCRE 91
(Aurelius); RSC 99.
(3.09 grams / 18 mm)

 

The identity of the children on the reverse of this are not known with absolute certainty -- and it's possible they are simply the attributes of the personification of Fecunditas and not intended to represent actual members of the imperial family -- but they are thought by some numismatists to represent (from oldest to youngest) Lucilla, Faustina III, Fadilla, and newborn Cornificia.[1]

How do we know this? First of all, we have to know when the coin was issued. In the absence of titulature beyond AVGVSTA, we have to turn to the parallel issues of her father and husband, who also issued coins with this motif on the reverse.


Antoninus Pius, AD 138-161.
Roman AR denarius, 3.15 g, 18.1 mm, 11 h.
Rome, December, AD 160- March, AD 161.
Obv: ANTONINVS AVG PIVS P P TR P XXIIII, laureate head, right.
Rev: PIETATI AVG COS IIII, Faustina II (as Pietas) standing left, holding a child on each arm; at each side of her, a child standing looking towards her and raising hand.
Refs: RIC 313c; BMCRE 1013-14; Cohen 631; Strack 384; RCV 4098.


Marcus Aurelius as Caesar, AD 139-161.
Roman AV aureus, 6.81 g.
Rome, 10 December - 31 December, AD 160.
Obv: AVRELIVS CAESAR AVG PII F, bareheaded, draped and cuirassed bust of Marcus right.
Rev: TR POT XV COS II DESIG III, Faustina standing facing, head left, holding two infants in each arm, two small children standing at her feet.
Refs: RIC (Pius) 487b. Calico 1979.
Photo: Ira & Larry Goldberg auction 104, lot 3322, 12 June 2018.

Given the similarity in reverse motif, I think it is highly likely that these coins were issued simultaneously and to commemorate an actual event, the birth of Princess Cornificia.[2] Moreover, I believe it likely that the reverse figure is Faustina II herself and that the reverse inscriptions FECVND AVGVSTAE and PIETATI AVG refer not to the figure depicted on the reverse, but the attributes of the person on the obverse: the fecundity of the Augusta and the piety of the Augustus. Note that the aureus of Marcus Aurelius does not identify the female figure as either Fecunditas or Pietas. I think that's because her identity would have been obvious to the Roman people: Faustina II.

We can date these coins to the last three weeks of AD 160, for the combination of titles on the coins of Antoninus Pius and Marcus Aurelius was only possible from 10 December through 31 December, 160.

Having established that the coin depicts Faustina II and was issued in December, AD 160, we can set out on the task of identifying the children. Although there is some uncertainty about the birth dates of some of her children, and it's not clear whether a boy known as Gemellus Lucillae (which literally means "twin (masc.) of Lucilla") actually existed, here's what we know about Faustina and Marcus' children[3]:

• Her first child was a daughter, Domitia Faustina, born November 30, 147 AD. She is thought to have died in AD 150 or 151
  
• Titus Aurelius Antoninus ("Antoninus" #2) and his twin brother Titus Aelius Aurelius ("Aelius" #3) were POSSIBLY her second and third children; the historical record is inconsistent and the dates these children were born is not known with certainty or whether they were twins. The birth of the two boys in AD 149 is suggested by coins with the legend temporum felicitas ("happiness of these times"), because their birth meant that dynastic continuity was guaranteed. In ancient Rome, that was another way of saying that a civil war was averted. If these two were twins, Antoninus must have been the elder of the two, because Marcus Aurelius gave this name to the son who he believed would be his successor. However, Aelius died within a year, and Antoninus appears to have died soon after. The evidence is limited to coinage: there is a coin that shows Faustina III and Antoninus; the next coin shows Faustina III alone. There is nothing exceptional to this: infant mortality was high in pre-industrial societies. Aelius and Antoninus were buried in the Mausoleum of Hadrian.
• Annia Galeria Aurelia Lucilla (#4 or #2), better known as simply Lucilla, was born in AD 149 or 150.
• Annia Galeria Aurelia Faustina (#5 or #3), better known as Faustina III, was born in AD 150/151.
• T. Aelius Antoninus (#6 or #4) was born in AD 152 if not in AD 149, as discussed above. Some identify this male child with T. Aurelius Antoninus or perhaps with Hadrianus. He died in infancy.
• Son (#7 or #5) dead in infancy, late AD 157 or early 158, known from a letter of Marcus Aurelius acknowledging congratulations on his birth. Some identify him with the T. Aelius Aurelius if not born in AD 149, as discussed above.
  
• Annia Aurelia Fadilla, most commonly known as Fadilla (#8 or #6), was born in AD 159.
• Annia Cornificia Faustina Minor (#9 or #7), was born in August, 160.
• Of the twins born 31 August 161, the elder (#10 or #8) was called Titus Aurelius Fulvius Antoninus and the younger (#11 or #9) Lucius Aurelius Commodus. Titus died in AD 165.
• Marcus Annius Verus (#12 or #10) was born in late AD 162.
• Hadrianus, the youngest son (#13 or #11), was born about AD 165 or 166.
• Vibia Aurelia Sabina was the youngest child (#14 or #12), a daughter, born in AD 170.

That's ONE OR TWO SETS OF TWINS in ELEVEN OR TWELVE PREGNANCIES. The "fecundity of the empress," indeed!

Having established a date of December, 160 for your coin, and proposing that the figure on the reverse is the empress herself and not simply a personification of Fecunditas or Pietas, let's try to identify which children the reverse may depict. At the time of the coin's issue, the following children had already died: Domitia Faustina, Antoninus, Aelius, Titus Aelius Antoninus, and a son, the identity of which is unclear. This left only the four daughters, Lucilla, Faustina III, Fadilla, and Cornificia.

Four children were alive (all girls) at the time this coin was issued, two were older (middle-school age) and two were very young, no more than two and one years of age, respectively. The coin depicts four children, two old enough to stand and two young enough to be held in an arm. Although the children at the reverse figure's feet are preschooler size, not tween size, I consider this an artistic convention, similar to the way barbarian captives are rendered tiny compared to Roman soldiers on many issues.

Additional evidence that the reverse depicts Faustina and her four living children in AD 160 is that coins issued by Pius the previous year, such as this example in the British Museum (BMCRE 983, RIC 302b) with the titles TR P XXIII and COS IIII, and dated to AD 159 depict a similar reverse motif but with only three children. One quite naturally concludes that this coin was issued to commemorate the birth of Fadilla in that year,[4] with Faustina III and Lucilla being the older children standing at her feet.


For these reasons, I believe the coins of Faustina II with the FECVND AVGVSTAE reverse legend and the parallel issues of her father and husband were issued starting in mid- to late-December, AD 160 to commemorate the birth of Cornificia, and depict Faustina II herself on the reverse, along with her four children, Lucilla, Faustina III, Fadilla, and Cornificia.

The coin with the SAECVLI FELICIT reverse type depicting the twin boys Antoninus and Commodus must have been issued shortly after their birth in AD 161.

~~~

1. Strack, Paul L. Untersuchungen Zur Romischen Reichspragung Des Zweiten Jahrhunderts. Kohlhammer, 1937, pp. 113-18.

2. So too Mattingly, Harold, Coins of the Roman Empire in the British Museum, vol. IV: Antoninus Pius to Commodus. Introduction, indexes and plates. London, BMP, 1968, p. lxxv.

3. For a discussion of the chronology and identities of all of Faustina's children and the difficulties in reconciling the ancient sources, see Levick, Barbara. Faustina I and II: Imperial Women of the Golden Age. Oxford University Press, 2014, pp. 115-18.

4. So Mattingly, op. cit., p. lxxiv.

 

I just found my new coin in Dinsdale, listed as No. 005120. See Dinsdale, Paul H., The Imperial Coinage of the Middle Antonines: Marcus Aurelius with Lucius Verus and Commodus, Ch. 4, Faustina II - Undated, 158-176 (http://romanpaulus.x10host.com/Marcus/04 - Faustina II - Undated, 158-176 (med_res).pdf) at p. 54; photo at p. 60. Dinsdale doesn't appear to address the issue of the identity of the four children, but does date the coin prior to 161 AD, specifically in 160. See id. at p. 50 n. 3.

Regarding the issue of whether the title "Augusta" appeared on Faustina II's coin, without mention of her filiation, prior to the death of her father, Dinsdale states:

"It has been conventional numismatic practice to date to the reign of Antoninus those issues of Faustina which refer to her as his daughter (PII AVG FIL etc.), and those which omit the filiation (FAVSTINA AVGVSTA only) to the reign of Marcus,
but there is no reason why the former could not have continued, at least briefly, into the reign of Marcus, or the latter commenced under Antoninus. Strack argued that the FAVSTINA AVGVSTA issues with descriptive reverses actually
commenced in 158, a judgement confirmed by MIR. The specific types identified by Strack for this early commencement are marked by the inclusion of references to his catalogue."

Id. at p. 50 (emphasis added).

 

Here are the sestertius versions of the coins in the OP:


Faustina II, AD 147-175.
Roman oricalchum sestertius, 22.36 gm, 33.7 mm, 12 h.
Rome, December AD 160.
Obv: FAVSTINA AVGVSTA, bare-headed and draped bust, right.
Rev: FECVND AVGVSTAE S C, (Faustina as) Fecunditas standing left, between two children (thought to represent Faustina III and Lucilla), holding two infants in her arms (thought to represent Fadilla and Cornificia).
Refs: RIC 1635; BMCRE 902-904; Cohen 96; Strack 1336; RCV 5273; MIR 10.



Faustina II, AD 147-175.
Roman orichalcum sestertius, 24.65 g, 30.4 mm, 12 h.
Rome, late AD 161.
Obv: FAVSTINA AVGVSTA, bare-headed and draped bust, right.
Rev: SAECVLI FELICIT SC, draped throne on which there are two infant boys (Antoninus and Commodus) with stars above their heads.
Refs: RIC 1665; BMCRE 936; Cohen 193; RCV 5282; MIR 27.

 

It has been proposed that coins with this reverse type were issued in AD 162 to commemorate the birth of Marcus Annius Verus: