Would you consider changes to the grading scales? AU 63, etc?

Because coin grading is subjective, and eye appeal is a major deciding factor in the grade. This seems to be an almost impossible task for a computer program.

 

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I'd be happy with high-res close-up scans to prevent fraud.

 

It absolutely is more impartial. The TPGs aren't buying and selling coins. They have no financial interest in trying to deceive you that your coin isn't as good as it is, the coin shop does.

Anyone can get labels like that made if they want to, all you have to do is do a bulk submission and be willing to pay up for the labels. Financially ANACS might need HSN I really don't know, PCGS and NGC absolutely do not need their business and are not dependent on it.

 

The problem being discussed here is specific to the AU58 grade. All the lower AU grades have enough loss of detail and luster that the preservation of the surfaces shouldn’t matter. When discussing AU58s where the friction is restricted solely to the high points and will in many cases be as slight as friction that we excuse as roll/cabinet friction, why should every coin be relegated to AU58 grade with an AU58 price, irrespective of overall surface quality. As has been discussed, often an AU58s will have better eye appeal and quality than coins in the MS60-62 range. I have absolutely no problem with the TPGs adopting AU grades to recognize both that the coin has wear (AU) and a numerical grade commensurate to the surface preservation (63-67).

This coin is a decent example of what I’m talking about. The TPG has said the coin is an AU58 due to trace high point wear. But it also has premium gem (66) surfaces




So I would have no problem if they graded this coin AU66 and let the market determine the price. The reason this coin is not a great example is because in AU58 it is a $2 coin and in MS66 it is a $25 coin, so who really cares, right? But imagine you had a coin with a $500-$1000 price spread between AU58 and a gem grade. It would seem criminal to punish a gem grade coin with a touch of high point wear that much.

 

I can live with that.

 

Hey, it's a quirk or flaw or whatever you want to call it of our business/hobby. If this is the worst thing we have to worry about, it's nothing.

If it gets more pronounced on some coins (Saints, Morgans) then you will have a situation where the AU-58's are at a clear and noticeable PREMIUM to MS60-62's. We're not there yet.

It's much likely to happen on currency (if it hasn't already) because there the off-margins very common on 60-62 paper (even 63) really detracts from the bill. Meanwhile, currency that is 55 or 58 has a near-invisible or invisible fold or crease that you simply can't see. If you can't afford to go up to 64 or 65 or higher....the choice is clear.

I think I even have a $10 Gold Certificate (PMG 40) that I posted here where folks though it was graded up to 15-25 higher. Granted, it's tougher to judge currency from pictures than coins (and much tougher than currency in-hand), but again, if "eye appeal" is important then this explains the currency phenomenon at even lower grades than the coins and AU-58.

 

Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men......

 

well said!

 

No a coin is either AU or MS.

AU 63 lol = nonsense.

 

NO, in my opinion.

 

The already call AU coins 63, wo what would be the change?

 

I posted in another thread about a collector friend of mine who always talks about a coin in a numerical sense.
That said I see a scale from 1 to 70 and depending on what a coin grades it will fall on a point value between 1 and 70 on the scale.
A much simpler way to understand the specimen condition.
But being realistic the scale should of been between 1 and 100 to grade coins.
To me it be much simpler for all to understand , here's why.....all your life it a good / bad thing right ?
Your dog knows good and bad..... but having a good grade coin really isnt good...by what most believe that good is a postive thing.
Thats why a scale of numbers makes more sense.... it give you a measure that is constant not a measure that can be taken two ways.
So I see a number scale where most understand the exact condition of the coin.

 

The Shadow knows

 

The thing is that an AU 58 grade does not automatically equal an AU 58 price. Plenty of AU 58 coins sell well above AU 58 price and even above low MS prices. Get an AU 58+ and you could very well see higher prices than most MS grades (I twice watched an AU58+ Franklin sell for more than MS 67s of the same date).

The market can determine the price if a coin is grade AU 58. For the best AU coins, there is the AU 58+ grade. The market has shown that grade is highly in demand and can set price records.

 

there it is!

 

The AU58+ grade is essentially the same thing as an AU63-67 grade without specifying how nice the surfaces really are. If they are willing to admit that the value is above that of a generic AU58, then do it right, have grades that reflect the varying levels of quality that exist within the AU58 grade.

 

The AU58+ grade is exactly what it is-the best of the best among the circulated coins. Very few coins get the 58+ grade, so why the need to split it into multiple more grades? And they are doing it right as they are actually following the standard of any sign of wear equals AU.

 

Because if the high point wear is so minor that it doesn’t really affect the eye appeal of the coin, then calling every coin like that AU 58+ irrespective of the individual surfaces is tantamount to just calling all mint state coins “UNCs”. We separate mint state coins using an 11 point scale, but can’t be bothered to describe the surfaces of a coin that somehow suffered the slightest high point wear.

 

While not saying that every coin that sells for more than the higher grade is undergraded, the fact that this is rather common just shows how stupid it is to really have two grading systems instead of a continuous one

 

We have multiple MS grades because there are millions of uncirculated coins. Among those millions of coins, the top UNC coins are graded MS 70. We also have many AU coins. The top AU coins are graded AU 58+. Your analogy would be like saying that there is a difference among MS 70 coins, so we should add more grades and the best 70s should become 71, 72, etc...within each grade there is variable quality and that is understood to be a part of grading (A, B, C for the grade). The coins with minimal high point wear are the A level coins for the 58/58+ grade.