http://www.dailymotion.com/related/...vte_falsificacion-de-monedas_business?from=rs He is creating real good fakes and Its pretty low tech, much like how it was back then...these coins will have no casting flaws. nothing that informative as anyone who knows how ancients struck coins could easily and cheaply make a simple set-up and do this in the garage. The real trick is making the dies which they do not show of course.
The last coin looked a lot like my little owl coin. I'm not buying anymore ancients until I study up on them. Ribbit
They are fairly harmless replicas. If you don't know ancients and you shop on eBay, you should be worried. If you buy from reputable ancient coins specialist dealers, with a guarantee, you will be fine. As an ancient coins specialist dealer, I feel very comfortable authenticating ancient coins. On the other hand, I am much less sure trying to authenticate a modern machine made coin. Joseph Sermarini FORVM ANCIENT COINS
I actually have several coins from these fellows. They clearly mark their coins as copies, and also sell the coins stamped in tin if you can't afford the silver version. I must say I love what they do - keeping the art of die engraving and hand-stamping alive, and not selling the results as counterfeit.
The problem is, if those dies get into the wrong hands, that's when problems begin. There were some molds recently sold on Ebay and the buyer is known to sell numistrash as authentic, so we figure it's only a matter of time before he will be selling ancient numistrash. Ribbit
There's a lot to be concerned about with regard to ancient coin authenticity, with lots of bad stuff going on. Antiquanova, the maker of these replicas, isn't one of them. They're a totally legitimate and legal maker of replicas (not fakes, not forgeries, not counterfeits -- legal copies), among the best and most highly regarded ancient coin replica makers in the world. They mark their work as copies. Yes, bad guys can gouge out the countermark or make die transfer or cast fakes from the replicas and tool out the countermark, but this is the same as with all replicas. What's more, the style always gives these away for what they are. These aren't deceptive or dangerous -- nothing to get worked up over. :smile If you want to get worked up, there are a fair number of scammers on eBay who have set up shop for years selling forgeries as authentic not only of ancient coins but artifacts as well -- thousands of them, with thousands of people having gotten scammed. Which is why if you buy on eBay, and you're relatively new or inexperienced, you really need to buy only from sellers recommended by reliable sources. There are lots of good sellers, and lots of bad ones too.
One thing to remember, and he says it often on his forum, Joe sells coins...he doesnt want to scare off potential buyers with talk of so called 'dangerous' fakes and saying a fake might deceive an expert is a general no no. Forum, which is otherwise a great place to learn...in the end, is in the business of selling coins which is paramount and takes importance over all else. Although, not only do you see respected dealers being found selling fakes being exposed on CFDL, on his forum you will often find his appointed experts disagreeing about the authenticity of a coin...there are coins certified by Sear and TPGs that have been found to be fake...anyone can be fooled from top down. Apparently he and maybe another made his first post just to dispell worries about these lovely replicas These coins, without doubt, are used to rip off people who do not know better. that is why I hate when people try to differentiate between 'dangerous' fakes and fakes that aren't 'dangerous'. I have seen people bidding on fakes that are obviously fakes to my eye...or altered replicas. These are dangerous to those people bidding obviously. Apparently if a coin cant fool most experts, its not dangerous. These will fool many buyers who do not know what they are doing well enough, the style is off a bit, but it is similar enough to ones found on coin archives to make one think it might just be a variation. They are not so different than the real deal to a person who doesnt know these types of coin intimately. So they CAN be deceptive or dangerous...to many. People who make and sell fakes or alter replicas like these and sell them as real are not trying to sell them to experts, they are trying to sell them to anyone else. Instead of downplaying fakes that are deemed 'not dangerous'...to save business...ALL fakes and replicas should be considered dangerous and people should always be made aware of the the true extent of the fakes and relative ease of making these. I also agree to buy from a trusted dealer but that in NO WAY means you will get an authentic coin. Who to trust? Some dealers know coins but a dealer doesnt not an expert make. He is human and can make mistakes and they often do. He might have bought a coin that is, indeed, a 'dangerous' fake to his eyes and doesnt realize its a good fake...and if you trust that dealer then you probably wont take many steps to further authenticate the coin...thus you might be buying fakes and simply not know it. that trusted dealer might have a good return policy but if you dont know its fake then you wont be sending it back will you? If you bought a fake 5 years ago, that coin is now known to be fake...will he contact you and let you know you bought a fake from him? The only way IMO is to question everyone and every coin you see...do not just put your trust in a person who is in the business of selling coins. No matter how knowledgable he comes off. I understand these coin are just replicas and there is nothing wrong with making and selling them. In the end...they are doing nothing wrong...but if they are doing it, how many more are and how 'dangerous' are the ones they are making? I thought it was interesting to see the process of make a very nice replica, which would be pretty much the same as making a fake...Although the making of the dies is the most interesting part and you will notice they pass on no information on how they do it.
Excellent point, Drusus! Here's a perfect example: http://cgi.ebay.com/1851-SILVER-DOLLAR-LIBERTY-INDIAN-HEAD-COIN_W0QQitemZ170297999774 I know before I bid on something I don't know much about, I consult a price guide and when that doesn't show up in the price guide, it gives me concern but there could be someone that thinks it's so rare, it isn't in the PG so they bid on it thinking they are getting something special, when, in fact, it's garbage but we know that. So that one isn't a "dangerous" fake, but what about this one: http://cgi.ebay.com/1846-SILVER-DOLLAR-SEATED-LIBERTY-COIN_W0QQitemZ170298023997 That one is in the PG so that one has more potential of being dangerous but for us, we also know it's garbage. Then there is this one: http://cgi.ebay.com/1878-US-UNITED-STATES-SILVER-TRADE-DOLLAR-COIN_W0QQitemZ170298043487 That one is a little more deceptive but with a little education, it would easily be known for what it is, more garbage. But Ebay is full of this, from coins to electronics, so the only way to keep from being had is to be careful to buy only what you know, not what you want (which I violate sometimes). I should have asked someone here about the little Athens Owl I bid on, before I bid, that way they could have saved me from getting taken but I went with judgment of the seller only (feedback included) and got scammed! I hope I learned my lesson this time. :goofer: Ribbit
It happens to everyone...even long time sellers and so called experts get fooled...the only difference is, the seller passes it on to a buyer unwittingly if he doesnt catch it and if he is a 'trusted' seller...well...you get the process. Recently a long time trusted seller had a bunch of rather glaring fakes for sale which were uncovered by the CFDL. Some people defended the seller by saying he has a good reputation and we all make mistakes. What if they had sold? When it was pointed out...would he have contacted the people and let them know? How does a long time trusted dealer take photos and catalog a fake coin without noticing they are fake? Maybe because he was careless? had others doing the work for him? Or just didnt know as much as he should have? One thing I cannot stress enough is to look at the source of the advice you are given. I am not saying a seller is a poor source for advice but in the end, know that a coin salesman wants to sell a coin. How many people have taken a coin to a coin seller and he has a thousand different reason why he can only pay you a small fraction of the coins worth? These are the people giving advice a lot of times. One advice you hear a lot is to use a seller you trust or has a good reputation. This will certainly not keep you from buying fakes but it might help....as a good seller (we all hope) WILL try to eliminate them if they come across their plate...but to be honest...If its between the seller taking a large loss and being able to unload a high priced 'dangerous' fake...I have a feeling many would pass it on...I might be cynical. Some of these ancients are very expensive, to have to cover a loss like say...15,000 on a fake gold aureus...that could put a serious hurt on many...so my trust will only go so far and I sadly look at every sell as a possible scam and look for people who are impartial to help verify. On thing I find people asking when you bring a coin to a forum is 'who is the seller?'...why does that matter as to whether the coin is authentic or not. If you are an expert, who is selling it has no bearing as to whether you can tell if that coin is fake or not...its either a fake or it isnt...you can either tell or you cant. If they ask who the seller is...I assume then and there the coin, if fake, is a good one and has fooled that expert.....Of course pictures are sometimes hard to tell...but so many do not see a coin in hand before they buy. When the guy says 'why not buy the one I am selling' instead of giving any real advice...well... I used to not frequent the forums and when I started to I went to certain forums thinking they were a certain way...they were there to help. I soon found out that there is often a very fuzzy line (some places quite a clear line) between 'expert' and 'coin seller' and these two might not go very well together. Some times the business over powers good advice. I find those places that do not blur the line to at least be better. If soeone says...this is my coin shop and I dont want this and this and that to be discussed...its not hidden.
