Anyone ever seen an American Eagle with incomplete strike both sides?

Hello all,
The photos below are obv and rev of a PCGS MS64 1987 American Silver Eagle. The whole front of Liberty, and the center and lower portion of the shield (rev) were not struck up. You can't tell from the photo very well, but the "flat" areas are highly reflective (not rough or dull) as though polished (raw plachet-like).

Many local dealers have looked at this coin, and at first said "weak strike", but when they see all other devices struck up strongly they retract. Some said "struck through grease", but retracted as they never saw one with BOTH sides effected, and normally it is cloudy, not shiny. Favorite explanation is a bad planchet - probably light (not enough metal to fully form the die).

Hint: I have 2 of these identical - both PCGS MS64 slabs.

Any help as to 1) have any of these ever surfaced before, and 2) what might possible causes be.

Thanks in advance for your help.

 

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I wonder if these could be test strikes...

Speedy

 

Welcome!!

MS64 indicates to me that they are "circulated". They look very much like circulated Walkers. My guess is pocket pieces, but it is hard to tell from your pics.

 

A full explanation would require removal from the slabs. Testing of weight to hundredths of a gram and measurement of thickness to hundredths of a mm should give an idea of it's an undersized planchet.

I don't know how many strikes these receive per coin; perhaps this one got one less strike than required.

In my opinion, it's an early weak strike, done before final adjustment of the die pressure.

 

Welcome to CoinTalk, Doc. You're just up the road from me.

This coin is certainly not circulated. (MS = Mint State = uncirculated) I will guess weak strike but the cause could certainly be something else.

Why don't you drop by ANACS and let JP or another grader take a look at it?

 

Thanks Hobo, will likely stop by ANACS with it. My real hope here on CoinTalk is to see if anyone has seen this on an Eagle before: i.e. how rare (read valuable) is this?

 

I never have seen anything quite like that.

 

Same here! I find it hard to believe that PCGS would have graded and slabbed either of the Silver Eagles as MS-64's without some sort of notation on the slab if they were slabbed this way. IMHO, this is some sort of impact damage after the Silver Eagles were slabbed. I have seen a few slabs (Rattlers) that the coins in them were so loose that they were able to make contact with the front and rear pieces of plastic of the holder when shook. This is fairly rare but happens and can cause impact damage over time. However, I would more suspect that someone accidentally or intentionally hit the plastic of the holder with something which pounded down the high spots on the ASE's. Since I am more inclined to believe that this is damage that occurred after the ASE's were slabbed and not grease strikes or other MInt borne error, I would return the two ASE's for consideration of replacements either in two graded and slabbed ASE's or monitary.


Frank

 

Weak strike. It would take a lot of pocket wear to remove that much detail and if that was the case the fields would not have the flash and luster that they do. Look at GD's gold eagle, the fields show scuffing and wear on them as well. It has very little luster left.

 

Response by well known grader

I personally know a well-known ex ICG grader, and he said this is a true MS64 mint error - he has several. He says NGC tends to call them "struck thru" or "weakly struck" when they slab them; PCGS, of course, won't say if you don't pay (for error designation that is). But they are indeed known, and they are indeed errors.

This is clearly NOT a circulated coin. I have been collecting since 1958, and know the difference. It is also clearly not impact damage (post-minting).

Thanks for all your thoughts, and put it in your reference file - the colleague says they are worth $75-$100. He has the same dated 1987, 2002 and 2004.

Perhaps they were "weak strikes" when they were first setting up the press for a run. Who knows.

 

I'm still leaning towards a test strike. The only thing is that normally those are even weaker...just a slight image is struck on the planchet.

Speedy

 

I'll say test strike too , the fields are too clean to be otherwise .
rzage

 

The reverse image make me think the die just got a fresh polish.
A test strike sounds right.

 

I am sorry to be a pessimist but the following is my honest opinion and observation.

Error or not, test strike or not, I just don't think that these would be very collectible to Error coin or ASE Collectors! I search for, buy, sell and collect many error coins from Centavos to Cents to Morgan & Peace Dollars to ASE's and IMHO any ASE's with this error (if that is what it is), just would not be something that Error or even ASE Collectors are looking for. I own many coins that are Struck thru Grease and when I find any coins (Cents through clad Half Dollars) that are similar in appearance to these ASE's, I throw them in the "take back to the Bank" pile. I definitely would not be looking to purchase any of these, slabbed and graded or not. Also, I would never pay a premium for them and would only consider purchasing some, if the price was extremely cheap.

I am sorry to be so bluntly honest but this is based on many years of buying, selling and collecting error coins!


Frank

 

Frank, don't sound so defensive. You are no doubt correct (in my opinion also). I think it is a) defective planchet (light - insufficient Ag to strike up) (however, since I have 2, probably not), or a test strike (light). Its interesting, though, just how "struck up" the rest of the coin is for a "light" strike. Seems like most of it should be light. UNLESS the planchet is concave both sides going in, thereby striking all but the center up first, and only flowing metal into the center under proper pressure. Being from Denver, and being Pres of a local Coin Club, we often have a Denver Mint person come to speak. I'll ask (and report to y'all) when I find out.

Regarding price, no doubt it's worth about $11.50 anyway. I also think most people wouldn't pay a nickel in collector error value for this. HOWEVER, whaddya bet I get over $75 if I put one up on Ebay??

Thanks again all - at least we all know now such things are out there and not "unique".

 

The weakness could be due to a slightly weak strike or it could be due to an accumulation of grease. It's unlikely to be a planchet defect, since a localized thinning right in the middle of the planchet is exceedingly uncommon.

As far as it being a "test strike" (a.k.a. "die trial", "die adjustment strike") such a determination is never defensible. Unless you were right there when the coin was struck, it's impossible to determine whether a low-pressure strike was part of a test run or is simply the product of spontaneous equipment malfunction during a press run. My extensive studies of low-pressure strikes indicate that the vast majority are simply due to press malfunctions. In other words, you can ignore any slab label that says "die trial" or "die adjustment strike". It's purely wishful thinking on the part of the grading services.

 

Good point

Speedy

 

Very possible error coin this may be.