Culls for a Triumviral Portrait Gold

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Andrew McCabe, Nov 11, 2020.

  1. jdmKY

    jdmKY Well-Known Member

    86039D5E-8470-4CAA-A131-578861CE9A72.jpeg A98E450E-7308-4CFC-81F0-26F3DBD8AFE1.jpeg


    I agree with Andrew, if you find one of these, you accept the nicks and dings!
     
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  3. Carthago

    Carthago Does this look infected to you?

    I have culled on a regular basis as I've focused my collecting interests, upgraded to better coins, or shed coins I simply didn't like. There are times I've made mistakes with impulsive or blind purchases and ended up simply not taking to the coin. Most often today, however, it's upgrading.

    A recent example from this year's activities is my Brutus 504/1 ex Tolstoi 1912:

    Prior example (well, I still have it but it's going to find a new home soon). Super coin, but I fell in love with another:

    Brutus and Hemicullus 504-1 NAC 2008.jpg

    New and improved:

    Brutus and Hemicullus 504-1 CNG Triton 2020.jpg

    Provenance:
    • Glendining Collection of Rev. W. L. Gantz of Abbots House, Stanstead Abbots, May 27, 1941 Lot 409;
    • Sotheby, Wilkinson & Hodge, Collection of Horace Sanders, Esq, F.S.A, February 12, 1923 Lot 173 sold to Rev. W. L. Gantz;
    • Adolf Hess Nach, Tolstoi collection March 11, 1912 Lot 628
     
  4. Terence Cheesman

    Terence Cheesman Well-Known Member

    My collection at its peak was something like 3500 coins. I have probably sold something like 3200 of them and purchased another 300. Currently I have about 70 coins in a box waiting. These I plan to send off next spring. Currently I have about 600 coins more or less evenly divided between Greek and Roman. Like Andrew I like coins with pedigrees, though I am not quite as fussy. My latest tetradrachm of Syracuse has a pedigree going back to 2013 and my latest Aegina turtle back to 2000. I have mentioned a number times before that I like to use the coins as teaching tools. Thus I tend to gravitate towards certain mints in the Greek series and certain emperors in the Roman. Mints like Syracuse, Taras and Athens in the Greek series I find interesting as these mints have a long history of minting coins and are an excellent method of showing students how the coinage changed over the centuries. With Roman coins I tend to purchase coins of the emperors they would most likely be reading about. Thus I tend to buy coins of Augustus, Trajan, and Marcus Aurelius. I tend to avoid the more obscure emperors who are expensive simply because they didn't survive for very long.
    Recently I disposed of this coin Xaegina4.jpeg Aegina Stater 456/45-431 BC 12.35 grms 20 mm It actually sold in the last CNG E Sale 480 Lot 179 This is the picture from CNG 4-150XLH.jpg At one point I had thought of replacing it with this coin. Aegina Turtle 404-350 BC. 12.07 grms 23 mm Photo by W Hansen I decided however to keep both of them at that time aegina5.jpg I had picked up another coin and decided to finally sell it. I had picked it up at a show in Edmonton some years ago. As luck would have it I found this one aegina9.jpg
    Aegina Turtle 445/4 to 430 BC 12.27 grms 19 mm Photo by W. Hansen.
     
  5. Finn235

    Finn235 Well-Known Member

    Incredible Antony aureus, and incredible coins that you are culling - I don't think I could part with a single one of those!

    This was one of the few that I would really consider a "cull" as it was sold because I am moving away from Central Asia to buckle down on the tougher Romans. It is in transit now to a fellow CT member who will enjoy it more than I did. I did at least get a new photo on my new phone before shipping it off

    Khwarezm, Afrighid dynasty
    Sawashfan, fl. 750s
    AR "dirham"
    Khwarezm Sawashfan AR tetradrachm.jpg

    I used the scratch to buy this one, which is a more fitting centerpiece to my Roman collection

    Achulla, Africa
    Publius Quinctilius Varus, as governor
    With Augustus, Gaius and Lucius
    P Quinctilius Varus AE30 Achulla Augustus Gaius Lucius.jpg


    My ancients game is to buy a select few coins I really want or need, and try to use large lots to turn enough profit to play a zero-sum game. I very often fail at this endeavor, as I usually find at least a few coins in each lot that too cool to sell, but sometimes I do list them in case the "right" owner comes along to make an offer. I parted ways with these coins; some I miss more than others.
    20180723_Cilicia-unknown-satrap-facing-traite-135.jpg
    20180723_Cilicia-obol-unknown-satrap-SNG-Cop-537.jpg
    20171210_Eucratides-square-quadruple.jpg
    Apollodotus ii barb imitation.jpg imgonline-com-ua-twotoone-FOwOaZX9DL4f.jpg Aurelius Concord TRP XVI.jpg Kidarite facing fire altar.jpg
    Trajan Victory seated RIC10 2.jpg
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2020
  6. DonnaML

    DonnaML Well-Known Member

    Is this reference intended to be a joke? You must know that he was disgraced a long time ago as a criminal -- a notorious smuggler and trader of looted antiquities with phony provenances. Believe me, I know: I was involved as an attorney years ago in one of the litigations involving the rights of Christo Michaelides. It's not something to joke about. And if you're serious, you shouldn't admit it.
     
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  7. Andrew McCabe

    Andrew McCabe Well-Known Member

    UBS 45 (15 Sep.1998) lot 697 (est. CHF 800) ex Schulman 243 (June 1966) lot 1501 R.J. Graham coll. ex Naville Ars Classica 17 (3 Oct.1934) lot 1045 ex Adolph Cahn 80 (27 Feb 1933) lot 548 (est.80 RM) ex Baranowsky (9 Dec.1929) lot 142 Arturo Cuzzi coll. (est.£It.200)
    Screenshot_20201112-023711_Flickr.jpg
     
  8. Andrew McCabe

    Andrew McCabe Well-Known Member

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  9. Ryro

    Ryro Trying to remove supporter status

    Interesting.
    I didn't know cull was used in the dispersing current tense. I'm used to a cull or culled coins as unattributable. Though, certainly we all must trim the fat. As S King would say.

    But I sure would!
    Seriously, thanks for these dazzling displays of antiquity:artist::woot::cigar:
    @Gavin Richardson it sure looks like a scoop to me:pompous:! Great call :)
    Here's my tie-in coin. After, when the two finally met in the middle with this rarity:
    20190327_115400_6D8BA529-E749-4399-9C32-08DDC6867FFF-469-00000051B054BFE8.png
    Marc Antony & Octavian
    AR Quinarius. Military mint moving with Octavian, 39 BC. Head of Concordia right, wearing diadem and veil, III VIR R P C around / Two hands clasped around caduceus, M ANTON C CAESAR around. Crawford 529/4b
     
  10. Fugio1

    Fugio1 Well-Known Member

    It seems I'm in the minority here. I try not to buy anything that I will ever want to upgrade. In my own experience, I've never sold a coin that needed upgrading where I didn't lose money.

    @Andrew McCabe I am curious why you parted with this lovely L. Furius Brocchus denarius in Roma XX. It does not look upgradeable to me. I was high bidder, though I haven't received it yet.
    414-1-4.00g-Roma Photo.jpg
     
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  11. Andrew McCabe

    Andrew McCabe Well-Known Member

    Coin is perfect. I couldn't find an old provenance and its not especially rare so there's a good chance I will eventually find a decent example (perhaps not as good as this) with an old provenance. I collect provenances and collector bios as well as the coins themselves so sometimes I compromise on the coins for the provenance. I really need the money to pay for the aureus that leads this thread. So, consistent decision for me even tho the coin is perfect and has beautiful old toning.
     
  12. panzerman

    panzerman Well-Known Member

    I would be pretty well in your boat:happy: Everything coin that I target at an auction is a "keeper" for life. However, I did send off my US? Canada obsolete banknote coll. to Heritage. I then used $$$ to buy more coins. Ditto for my butterfly/moth coll., which I am selling off (20K set specimens) takes a while.
    John
     
  13. NewStyleKing

    NewStyleKing Beware of Greeks bearing wreaths

    I do so. Provenances like anything can be faked.Lots of respected dealers dealt with him and I'm sure a nod and a wink was normal. My argument was and is where did the coin in question really come from and really how long ago?
    I remember Ted Buttrey had some major connection with uncovering some bullion fraud with faked paperwork and Prof. X got the Dekadrachm hoard repatriated from the USA to Turkey where it now sits, unloved and not researched!
    The difference between my RRRRR 2 palms is that nobody cares and that gold coin is an internationally famous type and always has been. Nobody could just own it and stow it away unremarked even the original finder would have recognised a gold coin for its gold value. At the time of its owners acquisition many numismatists queried the authenticity of first the BM's example and then the German one, so for years they must of queried the bone fides of the article itself! So other than intrinsic value why did they acquire it? So what value a provenance,now knowing what hoard it came from and what else was in it, now that's value.
    And who said, "behind every fortune lies a crime", Plutarch, Pliny,Aristotle, Marx?

    This is one of my favourite subjects-believe nothing!
     
  14. NewStyleKing

    NewStyleKing Beware of Greeks bearing wreaths

    Does anyone here read the Paul Barford blog? I once got a mention in it. Any thoughts?
     
  15. Andrew McCabe

    Andrew McCabe Well-Known Member

    Yes. Don't read the Paul Barford blog. Full of lies and twisted information, abusive, rude, designed to provoke anger etc etc. He's a massive troll. Been doing this game for 15 years, and if you deign to reply or comment, you get a shower of invective and hate on your head. Block and delete. No good can come of even looking at it. And if anyone starts discussing it with any seriousness on CoinTalk, then I block that person here as they only facilitate the troll (yes there's a function allowing you to block on CT)
     
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  16. NewStyleKing

    NewStyleKing Beware of Greeks bearing wreaths

    Thanks.Will ignore.
     
  17. Restitutor

    Restitutor Well-Known Member

    I wonder if these Cointalk threads will be used at some point in the future to source and verify coin provenance! It’s like we are living in and writing the futures history.

    I wonder how provenance value will be viewed in the next century. So many coin collectors exist now, will provenance only be of value for coins that can trace back to pre-2000? Pre-1900? I am still young, and barring any financial disasters I should own my coins for at least another 50 years. Some have provenance, though I still need to contact the auction houses to determine when the provenance actually started. Will that be viewed as a kickass provenance? I hope so, though I’m not sure I’d bet on it :hilarious::pompous: The future is quite exciting to think about!
     
  18. Fugio1

    Fugio1 Well-Known Member

    I have done this too. Realized some years ago that I couldn't collect everything and wanted to specialize. So to focus on Roman Republican coins, I sold my US large cent collection in the early 80's. British copper collection in 1987, and finally, most of my Roman Imperial collection in early 2000. Pretty much all nice coins to bring me some working capital to spend on RR coins. Trouble is, I still love these collecting areas. I still look at them in sales, and have acquired a few over the years since then.

    I was also a butterfly collector and have retained much of the nomenclature that I learned back then. As a 11-year-old, my collection was much smaller than yours, closer to 20 (no K).
     
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  19. Andrew McCabe

    Andrew McCabe Well-Known Member

    Cut off for me is the Euphronios Krater scandal that erupted around 2002 and was very widely publicised. From that date, it became clear to collectors of all types of antiquity that stuff needed to have proof of legal export. Before that kerfuffle, really it was all ok and there was so much undocumented flow of coins that, who can say if a coin was found 1999 or 1517.

    Thus, if substantial coins have no clear provenance before the 21st Century, I avoid. Doesn't mean such coins arent legally held- the MOUs for example do not cover the denarius coinage of the Roman Republic or later, not trade coins. This is about a decade before the MOUs because the MOUs were drafted in response to the Euphronios krater scandal and subsequent court cases. If you don't know the background there's several relevant books and lots on the Internet. But basically courts said you gotta do due diligence on your provenances.

    I make exceptions for some low value bronzes which may have been around centuries but just never photographed. I also buy coins that look like they likely have provenance from tone or circumstances of sale, then search the provenances. If I dont find anything then sometimes I sell the coins on, no matter how lovely

    I take a much more restricted view on my own permanent collection than laws or regulations cover because I hope still to be collecting many decades from now and regulations may change.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2020
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