Zodiac on Roman Coinage

Common symbols are sometimes surprisingly challenging to find. The Zodiac was a significant part of Roman culture yet the full wheel appears only periodically on coinage with relatively few examples surviving when they are found.

I've been a perennial underbidder on the types from Antoninus Pius but was surprisingly fortunate to pick up this coin from the most recent CNG sale (finally getting around to posting more often).

I've added some important types this year but this is the one which I was most worried about as, if I didn't buy this example, I might not see another for a long time.

It's also yet another case where viewing coins in-hand is crucial. This was sold mid-pandemic but my dealer was able to have select coins from the auction mailed to him to view. I feared it might be tooled but he gave it his stamp of approval.

If you aren't working with a trusted, experienced dealer, send me a message and I'll happily give some recommendations. A good dealer will talk you out of buying coins more often than not and tell you when overpaying is underpaying. They're valuable at all price-points and well worth the few percent over the hammer price.



PAPHLAGONIA, Amastris. Julia Maesa. Grandmother of Severus Alexander and Elagabalus. Æ 30mm (13.49 gm). IOUL MAICAN CEB, draped bust right, wearing stephane, holding grain ear and poppy / ΑΜΑCΤ ΡΙΑΝΩΝ, Hera and Zeus standing facing, looking at each other, each holding a long staff; H in exergue; all within wheel of the twelve signs of the Zodiac. BMC Pontus pg. 89, 34; Mionnet II pg. 396, 52. Good VF, dark green patina, centering holes on both sides. Extremely rare and among the finest known, with all the signs clear. The authors of RPC cite only four specimens, one of which is described as a cast, and only one specimen, this coin, in CoinArchives.

The "Zodiac Wheel" was a symbolic map of the heavens, and Zeus, king of the gods, and Hera, queen, are shown at its center. According to Catharine Lorber, "The entire design reflects the common belief of third-century Romans that their lives were shaped by higher powers. This schema and variations on it were employed by numerous mints for different emperors from the mid-second through the mid-third centuries."

Post your coins depicting Zodiac symbols.

 

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What a wonderful coin. I only wish I had one of the Zodiac coins, but I'm afraid that I don't -- unless one counts the Dioscuri as Gemini, or my Divus Vespasian as Capricorn, or various bulls as Taurus! But I have a feeling that's not what you mean.

 

...ditto....and wow! that's a dandie coin @AncientJoe

 

Wow that color is so much nicer and more vibrant than the sale photos! Congrats!

I’m curious regarding the comments on tooling. This may be more info than you’d be willing to delve into on a public forum, but how do you “know” your dealer is more knowledgeable than who an auction house is using to determine things like whether tooling has taken place? Take this piece - the seller didn’t note any tooling in the description, but if your dealer had said tooling existed, who would you have believed? Just genuinely interested, no motive or agenda behind this question!

 

What a handsome coin! Congrats!!

Unfortunately crickets from me

 

That’s a beautiful coin! Here is a previously posted Alexandrian zodiac wheel from my collection

https://www.cointalk.com/threads/centaur-sagittarius.363872/#post-4664715

As well as a few specific zodiacal houses from Alexandria

https://www.cointalk.com/threads/show-us-your-lions.357044/page-3#post-4277919

https://www.cointalk.com/threads/sh...-beautiful-bovines.357200/page-2#post-4284283

- Broucheion

 

Wow, that is a great coin! Considering the state of preservation of most examples of the Zodiac wheel type from the Alexandrian series, I can see why you went with this one. It's amazing how clearly you can see the entire wheel design and each individual component. Congrats!

I only have the two common ones from Alexandria.


ANTONINUS PIUS
AE Drachm. 24.39g, 35mm. EGYPT, Alexandria, RY 8 (AD 144/5). Zodiac Series. Emmett 1530; Dattari 2968; RPC Online temp 13547. O: ΑVΤ Κ Τ ΑΙΛ ΑΔΡ ΑΝΤωΝƐΙΝΟС СƐΒ ƐVС, Laureate head right. R: Zodiac Series, Sun in Leo: Lion (Leo) running right, radiate and draped bust of Helios and star above; L H below.

ANTONINUS PIUS
AR Drachm. 21.14g, 33.6mm. EGYPT, Alexandria, RY 8 (AD 144/145). RPC Online temp 13542; Dattari 2959; Emmett 1450.8. O: ΑΥΤ Κ Τ ΑΙΛ ΑΔΡ ΑΝΤⲰΝƐΙΝΟϹ ϹƐΒ ƐVϹ, Laureate, draped and cuirassed bust right. R: Zodiac Series, Venus in Taurus (night house): Draped bust of Aphrodite left; star before her; bull butting left below; L H in exergue.

 

That coin is WAY COOL, @AncientJoe!

This coin depicts a zodiac circle as well. See this thread.


Faustina I, AD 138-141.
Roman AR denarius, 3.0 g, 17.1 mm.
Rome, AD 145-150.
Obv: DIVA FAVSTINA, bare-headed and draped bust, right.
Rev: AVGVSTA, Female figure standing facing, head left, holding globe and resting left arm on zodiac circle.
Refs: RIC 366a; BMCRE 432-33; Cohen/RSC 73; RCV 4586; CRE 147.

 

Another awesome coin AJ

The Mughal Emperor Jahangir was famous for striking the Zodiac Mohurs/ among others. The Adams Collections featured some of them.....all went very high in Triton auction.

 

But not entirely:
A trinket my wife and I brought back from Cancun years ago showing the 20 months of the Mayan calendar:

 

Thanks! I use them for a third party, impartial opinion and for a multitude of additional context. Depending on the dealer, they will comment on the previous sale of a coin, market conditions, and other ancillary factors which are important to understanding what to bid: an auction house only has a few words of space to describe a coin.

If my dealer said he thought it was tooled and the auction house didn't, I would skip bidding on the coin. NGC provides a similar third party viewpoint: they don't guarantee authenticity but they certainly won't slab something they don't have confidence in.

Some auction houses under-describe problems on coins either because of volume or just because that's their methodology. I bought this coin from CNG and they're above reproach but they're still human and tooling can sometimes be an opinion.

Here is the (very lightly edited) email I received from my dealer to show just how deep some dealers will go:

"I grade the coin good VF/about VF with some light overall corrosion as you can see. It is reasonably close to the photo in the interior of the catalog. The light concentric circles that you see on the obverse are raised and part of the flan manufacture which I have seen on other coins with the indentation in the center of the coin. There has been some overall light cleaning, especially in the central reverse field, but nothing excessive and no tooling. I suspect that the grayish-brown patina may have been augmented a bit in the cleaning process. I actually had one with a nice green patina many years ago, although not significantly better in sharpness. There may only be one better example in the British Museum. Overall this is a very rare issue and of course desirable. I noted that it failed to sell in Triton IV back in 2000, but would expect a different situation today. It should be quite competitive. I think $15k would be a strong, sensible bid on the Amastris and hopefully will be buyable for less. The fact that it is on the catalog cover doesn’t help—ugh.

Regarding the other Zodiac coin in the sale, lot 494, this coin has considerably more condition issues than the Amastris. I think it was likely stripped of its patina, fairly aggressively cleaned, and then re-colored with the current dark brown-black color. It of course also has a light overall corrosion. The fact that there is no pedigree is also a cause for concern for a number of collectors from a cultural property standpoint. It does still have reasonable detail on the Zodiac however and other examples have been horrible. I think this type is slightly more common than the Amastris, but both should have some competitive bidding."

 

While your wheel isn't quite complete, the condition is incredible! I didn't see that thread before: congratulations on a superb specimen.

 

Very nice find, @AncientJoe ! Congrats.

None from me, I regret.

 

Perhaps this will be of some interest.

 

An example from an Eastern bastion of the Empire:

Tranquillina, wife of Gordian III, AE 26 of Singara, 10.7 grams, 12h

MESOPOTAMIA, Singara

Obverse: SAB TRANQVILLINA AVG, diademed and draped bust right

Reverse: AVP CEP KOA CINT APA; veiled bust of Tyche right; centaur Sagittarius leaping right and discharging bow above.

Reference: BMC Arabia p. 136, 14; SNG Copenhagen 258

 

A spectacular coin, AJ!

I have two of the more common individual zodiac signs from the Alexandrian series issued under Antoninus Pius.


EGYPT, Alexandria. Antoninus Pius
year 8, 144/5 CE
AE drachm, 33 mm, 22.9 gm, Zodiac series, "Venus in Taurus"
Obv: Laureate draped bust of Antoninus Pius right
Rev: bull butting left; above, diademed and draped bust of Aphrodite left; star before her; L H (date) in exergue
Ref: Emmett 1450.8

I searched CT so I could copy and paste my Leo drachm but found I'd never posted it! I bought at least a couple of years ago .


EGYPT, Alexandria. Antoninus Pius
year 8, 144/5 CE
AE drachm, 32 mm, 22.43 gm, Zodiac series, Helios in Leo
Obv: Laureate draped bust of Antoninus Pius right
Rev: Helios (Sun) in Leo: Lion leaping right; above, radiate and draped bust of Helios and six-pointed star; [L H below]
Ref: Köln 1495-6; Dattari (Savio) 2968; K&G 35.278; Emmett 1530.8
Ex Thomas Bentley Cederlind

A CNG blurb about A-Pi's Zodiac series:

Alexandria saw an immense output of coinage during the eighth year of Antoninus Pius’s reign. The Zodiac drachms, mythological types, and a host of issues for the nomes appeared that year. One explanation for this activity centers on the celebration of the renewal of the Great Sothic cycle, the point when the star Sothis (Sirius) rises on the same point on the horizon as the sun. This cycle of 1461 years began early in the reign of Pius in AD 139, and apparently prompted a renewal in the ancient Egyptian religion, while the coin types also stressed the connections to the Greco-Roman Pantheon.

 

Like I mentioned above, I do not have specific Zodiac coins, however I was inspired to capture these coins BECAUSE of my Zodiac Signs:

CANCER

Sicily Akragas AE Onkia 16mm 3.8g 425-406 BCE Eagle r fish fly - Crab conch SNG ANS 1062 var


YEAR of the PIG

Chinese Zodiac. I have always liked pigs on a coin. I had the joy of celebrating the Year of the Golden Pig (once every 60 years), in China 2007. Fun.

Iberia - Castulo AE14 Quarter Unit Bust - PIG / BOAR w-star 2nd C BCE


I acquired these Chinese Zodiac figurines, made from 50,000 - 55,000 year-old Mammoth Tusk. My Zodiac, and my Wife's Zodiac signs.

 

I couple of my thoughts based on your advisors response

1. "I think $15k would be a strong, sensible bid on the Amastris and hopefully will be buyable for less". This is in line with what I am saying some time now, that auctions have turned into a casino. Your advisor may be an honest person. But if he was a crook he would have asked the auctioneer for a small percentage and then turn 2 of his clients against each other. So you bid 15k and someone else upon his advice 20k. Or even just 14k to still keep you happy you won the coin. I strongly believe that this scenario is not fictional.

2. "The fact that there is no pedigree is also a cause for concern for a number of collectors from a cultural property standpoint." I am aware of an advisor who is preaching against buying coins from new digs but still was unfortunate to get revealed of buying from them. So it's partly true that you might get rid of some competition but it doesn't always work in your favor. And don't believe the big words some are saying.

 

I thought it might be worthwhile to provide a counterpoint to the somewhat apocalyptic view of ancient coin auctions, dealers, and advisors that is presented in this post. My comments are based on 13 years of experience buying coins at auction and from individuals based on the advice of my dealer. My dealer aided Mike Gasvoda in accumulating his magnificent collection that was sold by NAC, beginning with auction 86. If you want to read Mike's profusely complimentary comments about my dealer, feel free to read them online in pages 9 - 10 of the catalog:

https://www.arsclassicacoins.com/catalogues/auction-86/

First, it is not my experience that auctions have turned into a casino. In any auction there always will be a few coins that inspire spirited bidding, with a hammer price that seems far in excess of the coin's fair market value. This does not make the auction a casino, nor even that particular coin. While I have experienced some auctions that seem preordained to result in higher prices for most or all of their coins, this can be due to any number of factors -- new deep-pocketed buyers, pre-selling by the auction house to its clients, etc. If you have a reasonable budget based on thorough research, you simply stick to your budget and let the hammer fall where it may.

Second, it seems somewhat invidious to imply that an advisor could possibly be/have been dishonest and even colluded with the auction house without having any firsthand knowledge of the situation -- the advisor him/herself, the actual advice given, the auction house and its reputation/personnel, etc. Of course dishonest advisors exist, and of course dishonesty has, and will continue, to occur during ancient coin auctions. But it's clear from AncientJoe's post that he received an outstanding evaluation and advice from his dealer, as shown by his confidence in posting his dealer's comments.

I'm still trying to figure out what purpose is served by the post that I quoted. If it's intended to be cautionary, then I would observe that it would have more relevance by citing a failed bit of advice from an unscrupulous advisor, rather than a successful piece of advice from an advisor who did his/her homework. If the post was intended to illustrate the "casino" nature of auctions, then I would expect that AJ's coin would have hammered for more than the advisor's suggested budget rather than less.

I believe that most of the collectors here want to learn from others' actual experiences, both good and bad, and AJ's experience is an example of a good one. There have been bad experiences posted here as well, and they serve as useful guidance for the future. It's my belief that we learn the most from posts focused on specific, actual experiences rather than general, personal assertions about the direction of our hobby.

 

I'll echo all of what @IdesOfMarch01 posted and add a couple more comments for pprp's response:

For what it's worth, I paid $5K for this coin. The difference in commission between where I bought it and my max bid would be ~$450 to my dealer.

I have a pretty good feel for pricing myself and if I happened to keep buying coins right around my max bid, I might become suspicious but this is definitely a highly pessimistic view of an industry made of generally above-board people.

Yes, there are disingenuous people in every industry but there are more good coin dealers than not in my experience.

That sounds like a pretty poor return considering if they were being disingenuous, they'd lose my business and anyone I'd tell.

I'm not entirely sure what the point is here but there is definitely a preference in the market for coins with at least some sales history, which was the (valid) point he was making. It would seem pretty unproductive if a dealer preached against buying unprovenanced coins and then bought the coins themselves... surely they'd be hurting the value of the coins they just purchased?