Denarius imitations from Taman peninsula

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Tejas, Apr 18, 2020.

  1. Valens

    Valens Well-Known Member

    My English is poor. I will write the rest in Polish.
    Myślę, że Arkadiusz to piękne imię, mój syn Arkadiusz także .
    Artykuł bardzo ciekawy.
    Najbardziej interesują mnie naśladownictwa typu ONAV .Ponad 150 w katalogu Anochina i użycie w nich puncy "IM" lub "SIM".Naśladownictwa te pochodzą z IV wieku.
    [​IMG]
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  3. Pellinore

    Pellinore Well-Known Member

    That's a nice coincidence, that your son is called Arkadiusz, too. It's probably a more common name in Poland?
    Yes, that Anokhin link http://barbarous-imitations.narod.ru/index/271_288/0-157 that's in the article is great! More than 1500 imitative coins, although little detail is mentioned. But thanks to your message, I now understand that button with the Russian word одностемпельные. It means 'One Die' and it gives the die-linked coins in this large database. I wish I could fit my coins in it.

    I never noticed the "IM" and "SIM" punches being common in coins. I'm very curious about the system in this. I didn't understand that 'ONAV' until I saw the word repeated on that reverse die you reproduced. And the same coins point to the 4th century indeed, because of that wonderful die link, combining a Diocletian-like coin with Antoninus Pius. Very curious.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2020
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  4. Valens

    Valens Well-Known Member

    Proszę popatrzeć.
    Awers ten sam Kommodus SIM SIM SIM
    Rewers tak jak w zdjęciach z numerem 115 i 478 zmienione zostały napisy. Całe wykonane puncą IM IM....
    [​IMG]
     
  5. Tejas

    Tejas Well-Known Member

    Here are some of my denarius imitations from Eastern Europe:

    A die identical piece is on the website of O. Anokhin

    Screenshot 2020-04-25 at 13.52.12.png

    This may be an imitation of Septimius Severus
    Screenshot 2020-04-25 at 13.49.52.png

    This coin was found in the Lublin aera of south eastern Poland:
    Screenshot 2020-04-25 at 13.46.09.png
     
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  6. Tejas

    Tejas Well-Known Member

    This one is also nice and very barbaric. The die sinker seemed to have had no concept of writing. The piece was found in Ukraine:
    Screenshot 2020-04-25 at 13.59.12.png

    This one was also found in Ukraine:

    Screenshot 2020-04-25 at 14.03.05.png
     
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  7. Tejas

    Tejas Well-Known Member

    Another, pretty "wild" piece from Ukraine:

    Screenshot 2020-04-25 at 14.08.54.png
     
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  8. Tejas

    Tejas Well-Known Member

    Another piece, similar to those in Kleshchinov's book:

    Screenshot 2020-04-25 at 14.12.05.png
     
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  9. Valens

    Valens Well-Known Member

    Beautiful Coins.
    A to moja ulubiona.Zastanawiałem się co może być na rewersie. I wymyśliłem to ;). Personifikacja bóstwa poszukiwaczy skarbów .:joyful::joyful:[​IMG]
    [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
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  10. Pellinore

    Pellinore Well-Known Member

    Very funny, he looks furtively enough! But also like someone who is going to plant a tree.

    By the way, I found an obverse die match AND a double die match in the Anokhin collection to my Commodus imitation B4, a great function of that website. But I would expect such a coin with pretty exact text match, dating from shortly after Commodus was caesar, maybe 200 AD. Not a century later.
     
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  11. Pellinore

    Pellinore Well-Known Member

    Following up on this fascinating thread: here is a gold fourré of a type that's also in the Anokhin Barbarous Database.

    four ct.jpg

    UNCERTAIN GERMANIC TRIBES, Pseudo-Imperial coinage. Mid 3rd-early 4th centuries. 'Aureus' (fourrée (subaerate), 18 mm, 2.65 g, 12 h), imitating Marcus Aurelius (?). Obv. ∾CIΠ∾ •/∾C•ΛI∾ON Laureate head of Marcus Aurelius (?) to right. Rev. XCIIXCIXPX XCXIXICXICX Uncertain figure standing right, left arm outstretched. AB 54, 56, 198. Holed and with some breaks in the plating.

    The gilt plate really is gold-color. But the gold layer is thin, as is easy to see, and doesn't affect the weight much. I'd like to know what was the model for the reverse.
     
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  12. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    Either the bust is inebriated, or the die-cutter was inebriated. :)
     
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  13. Pellinore

    Pellinore Well-Known Member

    Maybe some of you saw the Leu auction (from Switzerland) of last Sunday, with a number of gold (and fourrée) coins of 'Uncertain German Tribes', coming from an 'Aurum Barbarorum Collection'. Needless to say, I didn't buy any as most of these went into the $2000 area. Here are two spectacular coins (that went for $8400 and $3100):

    Leu 1891 bear coin ct.jpg

    17 mm, 5.38g, second known example of the 'Bear Group'.

    Leu 1894 horseman.jpg

    20 mm, 6.47g, one of the 'Ulów Group', imitating Claudius II, 268-270, or Aurelian, 270-275. I was struck by the 'baroque' depiction of the horse and its rider. So beautifully detailed!

    I'd love to see your comments.
     
  14. curtislclay

    curtislclay Well-Known Member

    B3 looks like an official Syrian denarius of Septimius as II CO, rev. INVICTO IMP TROPA Trophy, BMC pl. 16.8 (same obv. die)
     
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  15. Severus Alexander

    Severus Alexander find me at NumisForums

    Best to tag @Pellinore to make sure he sees this. (I remember thinking it looked official.)

    I don't have any astute comments to make, but the "Bear series" looks pretty amazing! What a wild reverse design.
     
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  16. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    This coin illustrates another point about our coins. There is a less than well defined line between what we call 'official' branch mint products and what we term 'barbarous'. Even with findspots, we can have trouble proving where something was made especially considering the considerable movements of military units in the early Severan period. To me, the frightening part is that I have not made a conscious effort to seek out variations on the theme from the civil war period (Pescennius through the punitive Parthian period). I would not be at all shoked to learn that there will be a considerable reevaluation of the whole question of what coinage was authorized by Septimius and what should be termed imitative. At my level, the coins below are confusing. I hope there is someone out there studying the matter in earnest.
    re3295fd2169.jpg re3300fd1294.jpg re3390bb1737.jpg re6380bb02402.jpg re6420bb1572.jpg re6665fd3447.jpg rg1940bb1180.jpg rg2140bb1660.jpg
    This one is AE but denarius size.
    rg2650bb0881.jpg
     
  17. Pellinore

    Pellinore Well-Known Member

    Like this one, a Limes denarius of Severus.
    Septimius Severus 193-211. BI Limes denarius, 198-202. Obv. Head right. Rev. Victory left. COS III PP. 18.5 mm, 2.79 gr. RIC 125 page 106 "perhaps only found at the eastern mint". BMC (S&C) 656 at "Eastern mint" 198-202. Seller, Nov. 2018: "I think this is a cast 'limes' piece, in base metal".

    2264 SSlimes.jpg
     
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  18. Valens

    Valens Well-Known Member

  19. hotwheelsearl

    hotwheelsearl Well-Known Member

    For the second one: man couldn’t write a lick but he sure could sculpt. I love these where the artistry is very high but the literacy is very low
     
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