Medieval Monday!

In relation to @+VGO.DVCKS 's denier of Hugo IV of Burgundy and the Burgundian crusading interests, here is a denier tournois of Eudes IV, with an interesting Outremer connection:



Eudes IV de Bourgogne (1315-1349)
AR18mm, 0.84g denier tournois, 249/1000, minted at Auxonne cca. 1315-1322.
+ ЄVDЄ τ S DV°X°; cross pattee
+ BVRGOnDIЄ; Chateau tournois, B.G under chateau.
Poey d'Avant #5688, cf. Boudeau #1217, Dumas 10.25.3


Eudes was brother of Louis de Bourgogne, Prince of Achaea, and in 1316 after his brother's death inherited his titles in Thessalonica and Achaea, but he never pursued his claim, but rather sold both his title and claim around 1320.

During the first part of the Hundred Years War, Eudes fought alongside the Kings of France against the English and was a close advisor and vassal to King Philippe VI de Valois.

His coinage at Auxonne was an imitation after the Royal denier tournois, which he started minting around 1315 and continued to do so even after he did not receive Royal permission, like Charles de France in La Marche or Philippe de France in Poitou in 1316, both Capetian princes, did. Nonetheless his coinage circulated alongside the Royal denier tournois and the baronial deniers tournois up to the late 1320s. Dumas dates this particular coinage with these privy marks between 1315 and 1322, on the strength of the presence of such coins in the tresor de Lere.

This particular specimen has a little t-like marteau as a privy mark. Obverse die match with this spec.

 

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..i guess this would be in the gray area of medieval/modern classification....what do you consider the cut off date between the two & why?.... 3 kreutzer HRE Leopold l, 1700

 

@seth77, your level of engagement with what, from here, are the rrrrReally late phases of Frankish Greece and the Frankish Levant generally (...effectively meaning, Anything after the mid-13th century; when you get into the 14th, I sort of make sure I'm buckled in), is truly admirable. ...In the effective historical vacuum I inhabit, I've always seen the Frankish presence in Greece, that far into the 14th, as one of those Unsolved Mysteries. Many thanks for --a Little irony here, but Not Much-- advancing the cause of science!!!

 

@ominus1, a whole lot of people here have discussed this, fairly recently, with equal parts erudition and eloquence. ...And, with geographical and cultural factors, it's really a moving target. Quick example: if the Renaissance started in parts of Italy by 1400, if not before, I can promise you England wasn't there yet.
For numismatic purposes, something on either side of 1500 generally --that's, Generally-- works for a cutoff point. But your example definitely shows the ongoing, and for that matter largely seamless, heritage of the Middle Ages into the early modern era, especially with the heraldry.

 

I take the approach that the cutoff date for medieval coins is anything mulled or created by a machine. This is certainly later than the periodization we use for the historical time period, but I think it’s appropriate for the different material. It also isn’t universal (as hammered coins can be found in Asia into the 19th century), but it broadly works.

but to keep this from devolving into a discussion which has happened many times, look what just came in the mail

 

Yowie! Some Cool Bulgarian stuff going on here!
...And, right, the (later) transition from hammered to milled has been a truism in British numismatics, to resort to some Bob Marley interview, 'from time.' But it translates less smoothly to other, Continental series. A collective case in point are the Italian issues with screamingly Renaissance portraits, especially profiles, from at least the earlier 15th century. ...As emulated in England from Henry VII ...who had St. George's Chapel built at Windsor Castle; pretty emphatically late Gothic.
I remember the musicologist and harpsichordist Gustav Leonhardt, in an interview, talking about the transition from Renaissance to Baroque keyboard music, especially in Italy, in terms of the c. early 17th-c. terms, 'prima pratica' and 'secunda pratica.' (--SP???) His point being that, for a considerable interval, they coexisted.
...So, yeah, with acknowledgement of your prior qualifications, I'm more inclined to think of the milled-hammered transition as being only more localized to the British series (plural).

 

This isn't mine, but it is hosted in the National Museum of Indonesia in Jakarta so I figure I can post it. See it online here. This is a stamped silver ingot from Central Java that was likely the earliest form of metallic currency in the region. It's interesting that it took so long for ingots/coinage to become accepted in Indonesia (around 780 CE) given the long history of trade between India and China, both which adopted metallic currencies around a millennium earlier. Mitchiner writes of these ingots as precursors to the adoption of standardized coinage by 780 CE, but there is no evidence of the ingots existing before the standardized silver coins. It seems likely that they circulated side-by-side by the end of the eighth century.

I don't think this example has been well documented or written about in numismatic materials, but it is likely the longest provenance-dated specimen of these early ingots. This piece was donated to the National Museum of Indonesia around 1778 CE by Jacob Cornelis Matthieu Radermacher, a Dutch scientist most known for his botany work. The only side shown displays a purnakalasha vase, a revered symbol in Buddhism/Hinduism.

​

 

Thanks. I don't specifically collect medieval or any other period. My collecting criteria are British and eclectic, which can include anything that circulated or was produced in this country from Celtic to 2020 and counting, trying at the same time not to duplicate types where possible, though this does go awry in some Saxon and Norman issues for example where more than one mint is only known for the same specific type.

Not everything is decent, as I have more than the odd dog in the collection such as this Edward IV episcopal halfpenny of Canterbury under Archbishop Bourchier with trefoils by the neck (S2072A). Excessively rare, yes, but cracked, creased, and ugly. In fact most Edward IV episcopal small silver is poorly struck on small flans and that's reflected in the collection.


This Henry II 1a also ticks the not very attractive box, but does at least have a story. The mint signature is WI(L/N). On 14th July 1180 the mint at Winchester burnt down, so moneyers and production had to relocate temporarily to Wilton which is roughly 30 miles to the NW, with the mint signature being changed from WIN to WIL to recognise the new location.

 

@FitzNigel, while many of us here dearly love the Norman series (who has enough of 'em? not me), medieval Italian is one place where I branch out, at least into the mid-13th century, both civic and Staufen-era royal /imperial* issues.
Here's one in the names of Heinrich VI (German emperor, late 12th c.) and Costanza, the heiress of Sicily. ...Eventuating, thank you, in Friedrich II, who grew up in Sicily, and, in consequence, was probably literate in Arabic. ...Which Freaked Out contemporary chroniclers, even though the same level of (European) assimilation had been happening in Iberia at least since the time of Alfonso VI of Castile, to either side of the 12th century. ...I like it, for one, because this is one of the earliest examples of heraldry on a coin, with the Staufen eagle, like your example, on the reverse.

Obv. 'E[NRICVS] IMPERATOR.
Rev. C[ONSTANTIA] IMPERATRIX.
*I will always, and forever need Voltaire's characterization of the 'Holy Roman Empire' as 'neither holy, nor Roman, nor an empire.'

 

@robp, guilty as I am of the same thing (on much better grounds), Please don't apologise for these!!! The Edward IV is Beautiful. ...Yes, as the song says, 'in its own way,' but Still.
...Edward IV is Just Verging on late for me, but I have some pennies and ha'p'nies from ecclesiastical mints, especially York and Durham, from Ed. I's New Coinage to Henry VI. On all fronts, including the fascinating context for your Henry short cross --also Not Ugly-- the historical detail 'covers a multitude of sins.'

 

Better late then never/here are a few of mine....
AV Ducato ND Milan Mint
Filippo Maria Visconti/ Duke of Milan 1415-47
AV Genovino ND Genoa Mint
Genoa/ Repubic struck circa 1135-1200
AV Florin de Bourgoyne ND Burges Mint
Charles the Bold/ Duke of Burgundy/Flanders
AV 4 Tari d'oro ND Messina Mint
Konrad II Von Hohenstaufen/ HRE 1250-54
Hohenstaufen Rulers of Sicily
AV Salut d'or ND Naples Mint
Charles I of Anjou 1266-85
Anjevin Rulers of Naples/ Sicily

 

Sweet, @panzerman. What leaps out at me is that for the gold issues of Genoa, the chronology is that much narrower than that for the AR denaros with the same motifs and legends. All immobilizations of the 12th-c. emperor Conrad, but with the gold ones, you get to shave off a century after this.

 

My favorite:
AV Salut d'or ND Saint-Lo Mint (finest known)
Henry VI 1422-55 of Lancaster
English Occupied France
The enemy....
AV Ecu d'or de Couronne Neuf ND Tournai Mint
Charles VII "The Victorious" 1422-61 (Dauphin of French controlled France) Duke of Tournai
When Charles took over from Charles VI "The Mad" English forces occupied most of France/ the Burgundians where also allies of England. Lucky for the new French ruler Jeanne D'Arc came onto the scene and reversed French defeats into victories. After taking Orleans, French armies started to dominate the battlefield. Charles then struck these "new" Ecus made of pure gold. /weird thing about the auction/ January 2020 New York Sale/ there were two identical MS-63 examples/ I won the first (better eye appeal) one for 1250US/ second went for $2300.

 

Medieval Indian coins
AV Fanam ND Orissa Mint
Western Gangas MS-67
AV Pagoda ND
Kadambas of Goa
Anonymous Rulers 1160-1200
AV Pagoda data label (3 known)

 

Wow! Amazing coins @panzerman! Your Bourgundian (Andreas) Gulden/Florin d'or was actually struck in the Antwerp (Brabant) mint rather than Brugge (Flanders). The mint in Antwerp was not in operation during the first emission of this type of Andreasguldens of Charles the bold, but reopened for the second emission in 1474. Between its opening and 1476, just over 300.000 guldens of this type were struck there! (Slightly less than in Brugge at just under 400.000 guldens of this emission, but way more than the 50.000 from Nijmegen). And this is one mighty fine example of this fascinating type. Congrats!

 

Wow, @panzerman, I'm needing it just that there are fanams that can be dated even remotely as early as this. ...Going back to Coins Magazine, in the '70's (right, I'm a kid), where there'd always be somebody's full-page ad, selling generic (Utterly unattributed) ones cheaply enough that I could almost have bought one. Loving the combination of the elephant and the almost quasi-Celtic abstract design on the reverse.

 

Thanks! I was going by memory....
Stupid me should have taken the time to look at the coin, I made precise data labels. I got that coin from CNG /part of Adams Coll.
John

 

...Wow all over again, @panzerman. Ex Adams Coll. Provenance for people who turn up their nose at provenance. ...I'm Done now....

 

I think I have 22 of Dr. Adams coins now in my collection.
Some more medieval coins...sorry for crappy fotos.
AV Goldgulden ND Buda Mint
Lajos I of Anjou 1342-82
Kingdom of Hungary
AV Zecchino ND Achaia Mint
Crusader States/ Achaia
Robert of Taranto 1346-64

 

Some nice gold here. I believe they grade as 'acceptable' on my 2 point grading system.

Must set the alarm to remind me to get some Anglo-Gallic soon. It always follows the British and so gets overlooked.