1865 Seated Liberty Dollar Authentication Help

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by Mark Metzger, Jul 27, 2020.

  1. Mark Metzger

    Mark Metzger Well-Known Member

    I dipped the coin in some acetone just to see what was dirt and grime and what was tarnish. I’m posting a side by side photo of before (below) and after (above).
    BC19CD87-333D-4B43-A097-8D3130A3C9A9.jpeg
     
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  3. Mark Metzger

    Mark Metzger Well-Known Member

    A couple more...
    8FBCE498-ECFA-4EDB-8067-CDAE5A319EBA.jpeg A64CC0D0-E0C7-48DE-BA5C-B4D56BE64B50.jpeg
     
  4. Michael K

    Michael K Well-Known Member

    Obverse was a tad mushy, but the eagle looked real to me.
    If this was able to straight grade EF I think you quadrupled your money.
    While technically acetone won't hurt the coin, I would stop messing with it.
    As acetone can reveal problems that were not apparent before on circulated coins.
     
  5. TheFinn

    TheFinn Well-Known Member

    You might want to wet some Q-tip in Acetone or Dichloromethane (my favorite) to remove any loosened gunk. DO NOT RUB THE COIN.
     
  6. johnmilton

    johnmilton Well-Known Member

    The latest pictures make the coin look completely different. Now it looks like one of these old dollars that have not been fooled with.

    I would not mess with this coin very much. The toning is deep and into the surface. to make it ligher, you have have to remove some significant metal. People will either like it as it is or move on. If you really mess with it, you could end up with something that looks like your first set of pictures.
     
  7. Mark Metzger

    Mark Metzger Well-Known Member

    I’m definitely done messing with it. I am comfortable with acetone as safe but would never dip something like this in eZest. The next step is to send it in for grading and hope it straight grades.
     
    Mainebill likes this.
  8. ksparrow

    ksparrow Coin Hoarder Supporter

    I agree, stop with acetone. Please let us know how the grading goes!
     
  9. Mark Metzger

    Mark Metzger Well-Known Member

    It’ll be a while on the grading. I usually piggyback with a dealer friend of mine but he is t submitting for a while. Are there any new customer deals offered by PCGS or ngc? I’d prefer PCGS
     
  10. Steven Dale

    Steven Dale New Member

    Hi, I am new here (just joined today!). I have questions about a 1873 Seated Liberty Dollar I have acquired. Should I post here or start a new thread? Great forum btw!
     
  11. Mark Metzger

    Mark Metzger Well-Known Member

    Either option would work. Folks who have posted on this thread will get a notice that there is a new post so that might put more eyeballs on it.
    Also, just to update the thread, my 1865 Dollar is currently at PCGS for grading. I’m impatiently awaiting the results.
     
  12. Steven Dale

    Steven Dale New Member

    Thanks for the prompt response. Basically I have acquired (auction house in UK) a 1873 Seated Liberty Dollar. I was wondering if it was truly genuine, especially as it is stamped San Francisco Mint! The Red Book says 700 were minted but none known to exist. I am of the opinion that as no record of them being melted exists but Mint records say they were minted that some most exist in the wild. Anyway here are my images for folk to feedback their thoughts on. My current thinking is 75% genuine, 25% a fake. Looking closely with a 10x and 60x magnifier most details seem correct but date looks a bit off to me. BTW weight comes in at 26.55g (Red Book: 26.73g). Size is correct too.

    Thanks for any feedback.

    Steven
     
  13. Steven Dale

    Steven Dale New Member

    BTW Good luck with the grading!

    Steven
     
  14. Collecting Nut

    Collecting Nut Borderline Hoarder

    Please start a new thread. You wouldn't want to hijack this thread on your first day would you? Lol
     
  15. longshot

    longshot Enthusiast Supporter

    Well, the OP Ok'd it...

    At best the coin has been played with, the surfaces are not original. This doesn't help authentication.
    Also an added mintmark is a possibility.
    My humble opinion is that it's a total fake. The obverse wear, something, it just looks off.
    But many here know more than I do.

    Welcome to Cointalk!
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2020
  16. Collecting Nut

    Collecting Nut Borderline Hoarder

    Thanks but you know my feelings. A new thread will get more responses. Posting in this thread, while maybe similar issues, you are lining your responses to just those members that answered originally. I agree with you that this coin has probably been altered.
     
  17. messydesk

    messydesk Well-Known Member

    Absolutely fake. None are known to exist, but this one also has mushy details, the wrong style S, slightly misshapen letters, uneven denticles, and so on, so it's not even an alteration of a genuine coin. Get your money back if it's not too late.
     
  18. Publius2

    Publius2 Well-Known Member

    I think your 1873-S is almost certainly a counterfeit. Osburne and Cushing cannot be certain that none exist but the reports that the mint struck 700 are uncorroborated and they suspect that the 700 reported for 1873 were actually struck 1872 but reported in 1873. This did happen with the mints, maybe much more so in the 18th and early 19th century than in the late 19th century.

    I won't repeat what has already been said but instead focus on just one aspect.

    Comparing your coin to an 1872-S regarding mint mark location, it is pretty obvious from the two photos below that they don't match up. Of course, if there is a genuine 1873-S struck from dies uniquely distinct from those of 1872, then this comparison doesn't hold any water.

    If this was my coin, I would send photos to Dick Osburn at

    dickosburn@comcast.net

    and Brian P. Cushing at

    osburncushing@gmail.com

    I am not giving away any secrets by publishing their emails since they publish them on their website and in their book and invite comments and new information.

    1873-S_Liberty_Seated_Dollar_Obverse_Mint-Mark_Detail-squashed.jpeg 1872-S-revA-mintmark.jpg
     
  19. Publius2

    Publius2 Well-Known Member

  20. ksparrow

    ksparrow Coin Hoarder Supporter

    the 73 S looks counterfeit to me: grainy looking surface, mushy rounded letters, just look at the 2 photos above of the lower reverse and compare the lettering.
    Surfaces scrubbed with abrasive, probably to remove scale or small pimples. Thanks for posting photos large and sharp enough for a proper analysis.
     
  21. Mainebill

    Mainebill Bethany Danielle

    73-s is a total fake. The 65 is nice and crusty and possibly an old dip but nicely recovered. I see it at vf 35/xf 40 depending on the day
     
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