how do you spot fake Trade Dollars, anyway?

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by ksparrow, Aug 1, 2009.

  1. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    Do you mean these?

    upload_2020-10-24_11-27-24.png

    To my (extremely non-expert) eyes, the obverse and reverse look like two different coins. On the reverse, the rim and denticles are hammered, and the surface looks harshly cleaned but legit. On the obverse, the denticles are weaker and merge into the rim, and the surface on the lower half of the coin (especially around the date) looks like it was badly corroded.
     
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  3. manny9655

    manny9655 Well-Known Member

    I'm late to the party on this thread, but the first thing I noticed in Exhibit A is that the "U" in "United" has NO SERIF at the top right, which made me think it was a fake. Is this also a diagnostic? I know little about Trade Dollars. Thanks
     
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  4. Jack D. Young

    Jack D. Young Well-Known Member

    Not a trade, but fits in the conversation of good but dumb counterfeits, my 1872-S seated half!
    1872-s.jpg
    1872-s-obv.jpg
     
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  5. Malleus Maleficarum

    Malleus Maleficarum Well-Known Member

    Thanks for all the replies. Here's some new pictures to try to clear things up. DSC00434.jpg DSC00435.jpg

    A couple more full views with slightly different lighting. Perhaps a different perspective on the coin.

    DSC00443.jpg

    DSC00445.jpg
     
  6. Malleus Maleficarum

    Malleus Maleficarum Well-Known Member

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  7. ksparrow

    ksparrow Coin Hoarder Supporter

    Trying to authenticate Trade Dollars especially circulated or chopmarked examples is often vexing. Allowing for marks from circulation I give this one about a 90% chance of being genuine. Weakness of dentils in segments as in 5-6 on the obv is not unusual on Trades. Overall detail on both sides looks VF. I think it's a legitimate die pair ( 1,8 not touching; tall CC). Nice research folks. and MM has posted excellent photos
     
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  8. SensibleSal66

    SensibleSal66 U.S Casual Collector / Error Collector

    Ohh No, is mine fake tooo ! I wonder .
     
  9. SensibleSal66

    SensibleSal66 U.S Casual Collector / Error Collector

    Ohhh Noooo ! Is mine a fake ?? Tests results in morning .
    Its also a DDR !!
    1878S DDR Trade Dollar Obv.jpg 1878S Trade Dollarrev.jpg 1878S Trade Dollar DDR-Rev.jpg
     
  10. Malleus Maleficarum

    Malleus Maleficarum Well-Known Member

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  11. SensibleSal66

    SensibleSal66 U.S Casual Collector / Error Collector

    YES . Graded. Cleaned . Authenticate , PCGS . XF details # 145808 ( variety of 7048) .
     
  12. SensibleSal66

    SensibleSal66 U.S Casual Collector / Error Collector

    Sorry . Not trying to Hi-jack .
     
  13. SensibleSal66

    SensibleSal66 U.S Casual Collector / Error Collector

    Question ? Do grading companies weigh coins like this if need be ??
     
  14. Malleus Maleficarum

    Malleus Maleficarum Well-Known Member

    It's good then. :)

    As for hijacking. That's what this thread if for, asking about Trade Dollars and learning. It's an excellent thread.

    Yeah, grading companies would weigh a coin. The weight is a good starting point for authentication.
     
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  15. SensibleSal66

    SensibleSal66 U.S Casual Collector / Error Collector

    How do I weigh a coin in the holder . (PCGS )
    Other than cracking one open ?
     
  16. Malleus Maleficarum

    Malleus Maleficarum Well-Known Member

    You would have to know the weight of the holder. Here's a list if weights for PCGS I found. It's from 2015 so the new ones may weigh differently.

    Type 1: Solid Blue-Grey label with full rectangular hologram on reverse = 28.7 grams
    Type 2: Newer Blue/White label with full rectangular hologram on reverse = 28.3 grams
    Type 3: Newer Blue/White label with small square hologram on reverse = 31.6 grams or 28.2 grams
    Type 4 (Current): Newer Blue/White label with strip hologram on reverse = 25.8 grams
     
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  17. Jack D. Young

    Jack D. Young Well-Known Member

    A friend sent me images of his "Chinese fake"; states it is 90% silver:

    122482946_3979800058702175_2865845166292404308_n.jpg
    122360367_843704309772839_7282275987285962774_n.jpg
     
  18. SensibleSal66

    SensibleSal66 U.S Casual Collector / Error Collector

    Mine weighs = 55.48 g or (856.20 grains ?)
    So if , The Trade dollar’s specified total weight is 27.216 grams, but the coin can be over or under tolerance by as much as 0.097 gram and still remain of legal weight.
    55.48 with holder - 27.216 coin =28.264 Holder
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2020
  19. SensibleSal66

    SensibleSal66 U.S Casual Collector / Error Collector

    Hard to tell . Got a empty PCGS holder with this label ?
    1878S label-vert.jpg
     
  20. Mainebill

    Mainebill Bethany Danielle

    Finding the die pair with the same poor quality denticles and mm position gives me more confidence in yours being real. When I initially questioned it these were my main concerns especially with them being common hallmarks of fakes though the weight being good led me to believe it was a high quality one. Such as the ones @Jack D. Young has been finding even authenticated by the tpgs I’m not totally sold one way or the other but I’m leaning more towards real now. Again it’s tough to tell from pics but this is an interesting coin. A possible genuine one with many of the traits of a fake
     
  21. Mainebill

    Mainebill Bethany Danielle

    That’s a scary one. But it’s not the first high quality 78-cc fake I’ve seen there was one posted a few years ago that fooled me too. Was cleaned looking but silver and the right weight and very good. But not the right mm position for any known variety That’s a super tough date anyway. So would need more research to authenticate
     
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