Article linked from DGS: Typical nonsense

I dont know the guy who posted that article but it doesnt say he is a professional conservator...he says he DOES know how to conserve coins but has just decided not to tell people how...his reasoning is that people shouldnt do it themselves if they dont know how...of course they wont know how if no one tells them, or like you say, they develop the techniques themselves which would require trial and error and possibly ruining coins. Unlike many here, people who do it professionally could care less if you ruin your coins trying, they just want to get paid...this being a hobby for me, one I would like to spend as little money as possible on anything other than coins, I want to avoid paying.

He says nothing about protecting trade secrets...of course I have said I completely understand why people who do this for a living will never tell as they want you to pay THEM to do it.

But as Spock points out, there are often situations where a coins worth is low but you still would like to save it and one cannot justify the price to have it professionally done and it would be nice to be able to save the coin. So I would like to compile a page or two to help people do it themselves.

This is a common thing...There is a wealth of info out there to help people do it yourself. You can go and have a carpenter build you a work bench...or you can get a 'how to' book and build one yourself...I want to offer a how to for those who would like to save themselves money.

I fixed electric sockets and plumbing in my house myself with detailed how to instructions I got on the internet as well as building a real nice sturdy work table in the same way...I could have paid others but instead did it myself with no problem...none of those people decided to withhold information on how to do these things simply because they felt people were too stupid and would ruin their plumbing or electrocute themselves...probably because they gave detailed step by step instructions with warnings....

So I understand why a plumber wont tell me how to fix my plumbing...but there were enough people who figured out how to fix pluming and electricity to inform DIY people how to do it. Someone who knows these techniques and DOESNT do it professionally could help collectors save money and help us save old dirty coins...They either wont...or people just dont know how.

 

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exactly...post the do's and donts...examples...before and after shots if you can...warn them of the good ways and the bad ways....

do you have bright green deposits that seem powdery? YES REMOVE IMMEDIATLY...this is what you need to do!!

The silver coin is a bit dark? Probably not a good idea to try and remove it...thats toning and unless its dark black its good to have toned silver on old circulated coins in the coin world...if its dark black...here is how to thin the tone with out completely removing it...then tell them how to store the coin so that the nice tone doesnt turn dark black...things like this...Have it all in one spot so when someone comes asking you can link them there and even suggest what part relates to them.

Think of it as a 'DIY how too...' site...like any other DIY instructional site out there...but for coins.

I have started a page and will put what I know on there and with hope people will also have some info they can contribute and maybe we can put together a real useful page.

I dont want to bicker with people or insult anyone with this thread...its just that 'dont clean coins' is the standard response everyone gets and its not what this thread is about. Its about putting together a resource that will help people.

In the end...My first advice would always be...if it dont need cleaning...dont clean it.

 

Drusus,
Just what trade secrets does your local plumber have? How about a little closer analogy. Why shouldn't pfizer release their manufacturing procedures for viagra so we can all make our own?

BTW, you would be surprised how many areas (both places in your house and regions of the country) there are where you are not allowed to fix your plumbing yourself at least without the proper inspection. Electrical work is even more restrictive. You say that does not compare to cleaning your coins - one of the methods for cleaning is with cyanide. I would a lot rather have my neighbors playing with their plumbing than cyanide.

 

You can follow written instructions, but until you become experienced in safely cleaning coins, you will ruin a lot of them in the learning process. How quick is a "quick" dip...How gently is "gently"? I have 40 years experience and still run into coins that I tried to conserve and wish I had left alone..."Let a professional do it" is very sound advice.

 

Last post of the night.

C'mon Drusus. Look at your avatar and your interest and your threads. There is a HUGE differance in cleaning up an ancient digger or a Roman found in a bulk box at a show, than there is a 1921 Merc dime or a 1914-
S Lincoln.

Ancients? Cleaning might be the norm, but in the 200+year old USA coinage, it's not so acceptable. Preservation in one thing, but a newbie with a wire brush and Biox can do damage to any US coin.

I can advocate dipping, scrubbing, baking, toning, heating, buzzing, whizzing to all newbies, but only as an exercise in learning, and only with pocket change or the generic rolls of buffalos or wheats. Learn, see, do.......all good things.

There is a line tho.

 

I agree but some people are so thick headed they cant even figure this out.

 

Drusus as i said before dont be so thick headed there is no harm in admitting you are wrong. Instead of crying shame shame look at what you are doing destroying people coins with your thick headed rants that really is shameful.

Secondly you have twisted my posts but at least I am glad that the other members on the forum can see it and call a spade a spade. You have not responded to my question about whether you have damaged coins or not because you really cant or you will be exposed because even people at NCS say they might end up runing your coins and there is no such thing as 100% conservation but you are not ready to accept it. Once you put a page we will know how many coins you destroyed just because you were obstinate.

Ask any senior member of the forum no one in their right minds will give instructions to newbies to clean coins. Why? for reasons that rlm, AJ, GD have pointed time and again. The key here is right mind though. You keep using the word fool for yourself one time too many. As i said getting personal and ranting is not going to get you anywhere.

 

I agree but some here think that no we all must be incompetent in some way or we never got the right instructions from the experts otherwise we would have never damaged a coin. I am sure if we do it for another 40 or so years we might just get the experience.

 

Spock, I have never twisted a post of yours, I quoted you EXACTLY. I refuse to bicker with you anymore...especially since you are not even reading what I am saying...I have now said TWICE in this thread that I have ruined coins attempting to clean them:

I am exposed!!! I have never said I am an expert conservator which is why I would like to compile this information as it would also help me.

Apparently I am almost alone in my wish to help gather this information and make it accessable to all. So I give up, I honestly dnt want to spend my time bickering.

BTW...on the cyanide comment...I burn dies with nitric and hydrocloric acid mixtures...no problems yet...Its not rocket science, they are proceedures that obviously can be taught and learned. People say they dont think people should have this info because they will ruin coins trying, but also seem to admit that they try to anyway and ruin coins...its obvious to me that some detailed instruction might help those smart enough to follow them and SAVE a few coins that otherwise would have been ruined....

Again, I have a feeling the lions share of the people here havent a clue or advice to give on the subject anyway...just going to spend time bickering about grading or TPGs or how to hold a coin or pointing out bad ebay sellers.

I honestly do not want people to ruin their coins...the idea is just absurd. I do regret starting this thread I guess, I should have known what the outcome would have been. Thanks

 

Oh, and jack, I understand what you are saying...I come from ancients where the rules are much different. I also know that proper conservation is not frowned upon in world coins either as long as it is done properly. Just like I took the time to learn how to properly clean an ancient coin...I wish to also properly learn to how to conserve some of my ratty world coins as well. I assume that like with ancients, they are procedures that can be taught and learned.

I would never tell a person to scrub a modern world coin with a wire brush The most advice I have given concerning modern coins is a dip in distilled water to help thin grime and dirt and the few methods I know that will effectively treat Bronze disease as I have had to do this sometimes with my ancients.

 

Exactly stop bickering and understand you are telling people to clean coins when you yourself have ruined them by cleaning it. so what are you expecting will happent to other people who will clean coins? there is a chance that they will ruin them. people who have done cleaning/ conservation for years and are considered SME have ruined coins including NCS so if you think your instruction sheet will change that you are living in a different world.

 

I expect them to clean them right if someone gives them good instruction. Again, I will say one last time...

I ruined cheap coins I was practicing on using trial and error... BECAUSE THERE WAS NO ONE THERE WHO WOULD PROVIDE ME WITH THE CORRECT STEP BY STEP INSTRUCTIONS ON THE BEST WAYS TO GO ABOUT IT. I would NOT have destroyed them if someone had taken the time to give me valid information.

This is not rocket science, this is a proceedure that can OBVIOUSLY be taught and learned...so, in fact, those coins were ruined because people simply would not provide the information and I wanted to learn.

I have NEVER told a person to do anything more than possibly soak a coin in Distilled water or given advice on how to deal with BD...so I have never given people advice on how to clean coin beyond that.

I tend to think the reality of the situation is that people just dont have the information to provide...IMO, If one cared about preserving coins, they would help others preserve problem coins and give real advice...because they are fooling themselves if they think these people are just goin to leave a coin with BD or be content with a coin that is filthy (nor will they want to pay to clean low value coins)...at least armed with good advice you might save a coin or two...

So I can only assume they simply dont have the info and instead of just saying that they just cant help, they tell you 'dont clean coins'

No problem...this thread was a bad idea as I have a feeling people here have little to offer on the subject, so if you are done, I am as well