Enough arguing! A Different Look at Grading

best grader or not i am sure you cold do with a bit of reading sigh

 

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Please see no offense t anyone but my technology is about 2000 years from the future so i am the best grader by far. and if someone disagrees with my grading then thats because they are using todays primitive standards and no technology

 

i cant even imagine the stuff i will have to memorize if my new field works out and thats also a big if. now if i ever find the joker who said 2009 would be better than 2008 :hammer:

 

lol

 

I understand a little of what you are trying to do but here is one little problem I have with it. Somewhere along the way, someone has to clean the dies for a better looking coin. Or someone has a winning design with lots of depth. And because of the if the coin isn’t a Full Strike and the high points are not in full detail it should be reduced in grade because of this fact. Now let’s take Lehigh96’s MS68FS 1943P Jefferson nickel. Here you will notice the ponytail’s tie doesn’t have much detail. I am using this coin because Lehigh96 also has a 1944 Jefferson where the ponytail tie back has much more detail but yet it is graded lower. I believe mint state as defined is how the coin left the mint and unless every die was laser/machine cut and cleaned not one will be the same verses the dies that were hand engraved and cleaned. Maybe your idea will work on future coins provided the mint does something to give each coin the same opportunity.
But that’s the beauty of collecting coins. Not everyone has the same strike depth. Collectors complained how strikes were weak and the fixed the problem. The problem now is that there are only the marks on a coin to separate the different grades. Since the dies were fixed on the Jefferson nickel nearly every new strike is a full step coin; Takes the fun out of searching and collecting. Now everybody can get a 6 step nickel where before it was through knowledge and time searching you were able to get one. I could have used other coins that have for example Full Bell Lines, or Full Bands, or Full Head and so on. I used the nickel because everyone can look now and see the two distinct strike differences without taking away from the luster or grade of a coin.

 

This has two questions first;
Just a small point of interest: The 1893S Jack Lee MS67 Morgan Dollar...why does PCGS have this coin valued at 1,000,000.00? Because at auction, it sold for all the money. I believe a lot of time goes into the values PCGS uses based on experience, knowledge, what a coin sold for at auction, and through various groups and individuals assistance. I don't think they pull numbers out of the air. I used this coin because of its value. I could have very well have used the name Bernard A. Nagengast who is an expert in his field who works along with the TGP’s assuring the information used to validate a coins value is based on facts. I was given this information through direct communications with him.
Second question:
I believe they offer registry sets online for the collector. I believe there are some collectors that want the "BEST" and here is a way to show what they have that's better or what needs to be improved as well as create a need for their service and product.

 

I'll stand with you on this, Paul...at least as far as Morgans go with the top three grading companies. I've been collecting Morgans for almost 30 years now, and if I had photographic evidence, I'm sure I could back this up 100% with tens of thousands of pieces of evidence. As for other series, it might be mute, as I don't pay enough attention to them to care.
Guy~

 

Stucky I am trying to seperate value from grade, as I think that value affects grade under the current system.

as far as the registry sets, I am basing what I say on why a TPG would start a competitive thing like a reg set in the first place, and that is to give an incentive for a lot more submissions from collectors and I really can't think of any other. Nothing altrusitic in there at all.

 

I'm struggling mightily to understand this concept. It sounds like you're saying that it would be impossible to grade a coin without knowing its date and mint. For instance, could you grade the 1922 and 1924 Peaces that Lehigh showed in his post if the dates were obscured? If yes, what grades would give them? If not, why not?

To me it's ludicrous to think that the date is an important and deciding part of grading (assuming the date isn't damaged, or at least not any more that the other parts of the mottoes and devices).

Maybe since I'm looking at this from the viewpoint of a type collector, my thoughts are a lot different from series collectors. The date has no real meaning to me. I simply try to obtain the best representative coin of each type and I couldn't care less what the date or mint is.

 

how is grade in any way relevant outside of value?? Plus your over-emphasis on strike would skew the real world results beyond usefulness.

 

lol, I would say being honest with you was plenty nice. If you want to fight a windmill then that is your Quioxte given right, but if someone is kind enough to point out that it's a windmill you're fighting, they aren't being unkind, just helpful.

 

I have read and re-read the 1st three pages of this post. I have a headache. I will reread and continue the rest later.

In another thread I commented on strike and " gem " grades on coins ( Lincolns of course )

:rolling:

 

That was my reason for a comment about a lack of altruism by the TPGs. They started reg sets with greater profits in mind. Nothing more.

 

I think they are two seperate things and I think that value has begun to encroach on grade lately and so I advocate a seperation of the two.

 

I was trying in a tactful and polite way (while I myself was losing my temper, mind you) to request that someone and his statement of "that's just not possible to do" would either keep his comments on a constructive vein within the thread, or just let us have our own conversation. I felt that we were spending more time telling Doug that we wanted to have this conceptual discussion regardless of whether or not he felt it was possible. He had spoken his piece, we had said we respected it, and tried to just move on. I also felt that the thread was getting diluted in our repeated attempts to get him to join in or butt out. I felt that the discussion that we were trying to have was becoming too cumbersome for someone to just pick up, and therefore wasn't going to get as many people chiming in and as many different viewpoints as we wanted to solicit.

If that's tilting at windmills, then you tell Cervantes that I am his man of La Mantia.

 

this also give me anothe rpoint i want o bring up. okay lets say that strike is not a big consideration for grade but it is for value. we do pay more for FH FS designations other things being equal do we not .

 

True. Price is a result of creating that demand. if you had one coin and you didnt know a bette rone existed you might not shell out money for that. Marketing/sales use that all the time its in a way good to see it in numismatics.

 

if its any consolation they grade indian coins without knowing the century it was minted in