Shouldn't all proof be graded 70?

I always wonder how proof coin end up 68 or 69 if they never being exposed to the public-- Enjoy your day

 

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I assume you're talking about modern proofs?

While they are handled significantly less than business strike coins (which are just shot out into a big basket), proof coins are still handled. They have to be packaged, and there is some risk of contact marks between striking and packaging.

 

If only it were a perfect world. I would reckon it to wondering why all NFL quarterbacks aren't as talented as Tom Brady. They all work hard and they all made the cut...... But absolute perfection is a fleeting thing. And I fear it has been sanitized by the TV coin guys. I have seen many of their PF70 offerings to be quite lacking.

 

And while they get "inspected" at the Mint, it's not the same detailed inspection they get at a TPG. I've certainly seen PF69 coins where I couldn't find the flaw, even after staring for quite a while.

And, conversely, we've all seen photos here of coins in PF70 slabs with glaring flaws. Nobody's perfec.

 

The US Mint has specifically said TPG standards are not their standards. They have specifically said they are not tied to Proof 70 as their production standard. That is why Proof 68 and 69 are still given out.

I do not blame the mint. They know their business, not the TPG.

 

The Mint makes the coins and the TPGS grade them. Way back in the 1950's the Mint was making PR-70, 69, and 68 coins. No one cared. MS/PR 70 is a "modern" grade. The grade 70 existed many decades age but was NEVER USED. Sometime after the TPGS began to grade moderns we started to see it.

Note of caution: Although there are plenty of PERFECT 70's in slabs, a 70 grade on a label does not guarantee the coin in the slab will be one of them.

 

They sure as the devil have been exposed to clumsy mint employees.......

 

a completely "perfect" coin is near impossible. However with "proof" strike coins they get close and in a lot of cases can get to perfect as long as they keep the dies fresh, clean, run at higher pressure, ect. ect.

If the same minting standards were used for proof coins as they use for business strikes, there would be rarely a proof coin slabbed above PR67. it would still be somewhat cameo but they run the dies to death and set for speed. for business strike, "good" is "good enough".

If MS coins were struck with the care proofs were, the question would be "why aren't all business strike coins MS70?".
Also why the bullion eagles when graded, a lot get MS69 or MS70, while the struggle is really to get any other cent, nickel, dime, quarter, above MS68. they are stuck with care, the circulation strikes, Nope.

before the public touches either, it's what the mint has done. in a lot of cases with proof struck coins, they are perfect, and in some cases, there's room for improvement, and then there is a rare case where it won't even make a 68 and that's before someones hands get on it.

I don't think you'd see a Proof error coin make PR70, I think the error precludes it from being perfect. However this doesn't apply to die varieties.

 

According to John Burgess, a completely "perfect" coin is near impossible. However with "proof" strike coins they get close and in a lot of cases can get to perfect as long as they keep the dies fresh, clean, run at higher pressure, ect. ect."

Perhaps he is not examining enough coins to make such a statement.

Since we ignore any hits on the edge reeds it is totally amazing to me the number of perfect coins that come out of the Mint. Especially the large size MS SE and commemoratives.

 

This is a close-up from a 2005-S Silver Proof KS SQ. Based on this close-up, alone, do you think this coin should be graded PF70?

 

I'm all for going back to Poor, Good, Fine, and Extra Fine. It's all in the eye of the beholder, IMO.

 

All it takes is the tiniest flaw in the fields to result in a PR-69. The flaw could be in the die that made the coin, which means that all the coins from that die are disqualified from the PR-70 grade.

 

Actually, this is correct and not correct. For me PERSONALLY, a tiny spot, hairline, lint mark. or micro-frost skip due to something = No longer "Perfect" 70.

Commercial grading as done by the TPGS's allows tiny Mint-made imperfections on coins grading 70.

 

Leaving room for future expansion to a 100-point scale, are we?

 

But you and I both know that is applied on an inconsistent basis. I remember seeing the grading section of a "Monthly Coin World" where they pointed out a black mark the size of a pinhead as the reason for the PR-69 grade. I've seen other "PR-70s" had one of those that was "perfect."

 

Proof is a type of manufacture, not a grade. Even proof dies wear over time.

 

johnmilton, posted: "But you and I both know that is applied on an inconsistent basis. I remember seeing the grading section of a "Monthly Coin World" where they pointed out a black mark the size of a pinhead as the reason for the PR-69 grade. I've seen other "PR-70s" had one of those that was "perfect."

All grading is applied on an inconsistent basis. Examples as you have posted would shut down the CT web.


Collecting Nut, posted: "Proof is a type of manufacture, not a grade. Even proof dies wear over time."

While you are absolutely correct, we are discussing coins without any trace of wear that were MANUFACTURED as 68's to 70's.

 

I only said that because of the OP's thread title, "Shouldn't all proof be graded 70?" Then his post refers to his title, which was a question.

 

Collecting Nut, posted: "I only said that because of the OP's thread title, "Shouldn't all proof be graded 70?" Then his post refers to his title, which was a question."

Again, you are absolutely correct and your answer dealing with the OP's question is the best in the thread!

 

Thank you