Elegantly Abstract Imitations

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by hotwheelsearl, Oct 10, 2020.

  1. hotwheelsearl

    hotwheelsearl Well-Known Member

    We all know that the so-called "barbaric imitations" are generally of "low" artistic quality.
    The celators who made these tended not to be officially trained artisans, and were often illiterate.
    Therefore, you often find blundered legends, atrocious busts, and only a semblance of an official appearance.

    In addition, they often have the following features:
    1. feature a radiate bust
    2. features Constantine's VLPP type
    3. Very small
    4. Very "ugly" and blundered.

    Here are two examples of low artistic quality imitations:
    Tetricus II RIC 248.JPG
    Ruler: Tetricus II(?)
    Diam: 14mm
    Weight: 1.9g
    This one features: small size (an average radiate of the Tetricii was often 16-20mm), and a rather ugly obverse. Curiously, the reverse is pretty average of the Tetricii.

    Compare to an official Tetricus II:
    Tetricus II RIC 272.JPG



    Constantine I Barbarous.JPG
    Ruler: Constantine I
    Diam: 15mm
    Weight: 1.6g
    This features: blundered legends, and poor quality engraving on both sides. Constantine had a flat shovel-face, and the two victories on the rev see to be sharing a pint.

    Compare to an official Constantine VLPP with rather attractive and detailed engravings.
    Constantine I VLPP.JPG
    ---
    FTR Barb Imitation.JPG
    Ruler: Constantius II(?)
    Diam: 12mm
    Weight: 0.8g
    This features: extremely small size and weight, no legends, and very primitive line-drawing style of the fallen horseman.

    Compare to an official FTR of Constantius II:
    Constantius II RIC VIII 104 110.JPG



    Sometimes, however, you have excellent imitations that fall into two categories:
    1. Extremely accurate recreations of official types. Some consider these coins to be actually counterfeits or forgeries, since the style emulation is so close.
    2. Extremely stylistic and abstract designs. These are similar to the "ugly" types in that they blunder the legends and designs, but have such an endearing style that they have their own value in their abstractiveness. The "ugly" type probably used an inexperienced or untrained celator; the "abstract" ones likely used a local artisan trained in local Briton/Celtic art, and adapted his style into an emulation of the Roman.

    Example of Category 1:
    Constans Barbaric.JPG
    Ruler: Constans
    Diam: 24mm
    Weight: 4.4g
    This style is so fine that I initially assumed this was an official Arles issue. However, the rather alien-like appearance of Constans, and the unusually large emperor figure on the reverse, plus strange-looking lettering points this towards a very fine, but barbaric imitation. I think we could call this a "counterfeit" since it looks so good.

    Compare to an official Constans galley:
    Constans RIC VIII 118.JPG
    Ruler: Constans
    Diam: 21mm
    Weight: 6.1g
    Curiously, the imitation/forgery is actually larger in flan size, by a while 3mm. These two coins should have shared the same module size, but the official one is rather smaller. However, it is significantly (20%) heavier, so I guess it evens out.

    An example of Category 2:
    Constantine I VLPP barb.JPG
    Ruler: Constantine I
    Diam: 19x18mm
    Weight: 2.9g
    This features a gorgeous, abstract and stylized design. The legends are completely blundered, but are present. This is a coin where the celator was obviously a highly talented artist in his own right. He basically took inspiration from the official model, and adapted and inserted his own Celtic(?) flavor into the coin! The end result is an absolutely stunning, endearing and high-quality coin. The celator must have been proud of his creation, contrasted to the rather awful examples shown up top.

    Compare to an official Constantine I VLPP:
    Constantine I VLPP.JPG
    Ruler: Constantine I
    Diam: 17mm
    Weight: 2.2g
    Again, curiously, the imitation outsizes and outweights the official issue! However, the imitation has no silver while the official is likely a low-silver content billon alloy.


    Thanks for reading this long post. Please post your favorite imitations!
     
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  3. Parthicus

    Parthicus Well-Known Member

    I have an imitative of Constantine I that has a (to me) attractive style:
    Barbarous.jpg
     
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  4. hotwheelsearl

    hotwheelsearl Well-Known Member

    That’s goegeous. The celator was obviously very skilled, just not in the imperial fashion. I also like the reasonably attempt at a legend, and a nice bold mint mark!
     
    +VGO.DVCKS likes this.
  5. Severus Alexander

    Severus Alexander find me at NumisForums

    Those are all cool examples - I love imitatives, from ugly to beautiful and from close imitations to wacky. This is probably my favourite VLPP:

    Screen Shot 2020-10-10 at 4.29.16 PM.jpg
    Quite nice style but very unofficial.

    My newest imitative is this Gallienus, which definitely falls on the wacky and ugly side of things:
    160491.jpg But I love it! :D
     
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  6. randygeki

    randygeki Coin Collector

  7. hotwheelsearl

    hotwheelsearl Well-Known Member

  8. randygeki

    randygeki Coin Collector

    thanks :) The 2nd is a Failmezger plate coin
     
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  9. Pellinore

    Pellinore Well-Known Member

    I love barbarous imitations, and here are some of mine.

    2551 fau ct.jpg

    2927 Nummus Constans bar ct.jpg

    2934 vlpp imi.jpg

    2932 B ct.jpg

    2625 Claudius II barb 300.jpg

    2906 Barb ct.jpg

    2952 B Const ii ct.jpg

    2963 barb gct.jpg

    2961 RB  r.jpg

    Germ 91 ct.jpg
     
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  10. ancient coin hunter

    ancient coin hunter 3rd Century Usurper

    Great examples of imitations, all. I sadly don't have a single barbarous type.
     
  11. +VGO.DVCKS

    +VGO.DVCKS Well-Known Member

    Oh, Wow, these are all great examples. To my horror and dismay, I can't find pics of any of mine. But, @hotwheelsearl ...or anyone else who cares to comment, is the transition from the mostly Gallic radiates to the dominant Constantinian prototype as seamless as that? I've seen some, at least, of the latter attributed to a relatively little known Germanic tribe, vaguely just east of the southern Rhine. ...Granted, it's sounding as if at least some substantive scholarship has been done on this since then.
    ...And what about the imitations of prototypes later in the 4th century? ...It's already smelling as if I should take another look at someone's (--Sorry, and Thank you) thread on this subject, maybe a couple of weeks back.
    Meanwhile, as you noted (as did other people here --or at least, this will be intuitively obvious to y'all), the level of abstraction, in capable hands, can be beautiful in its own right. At this or that interval, there's a 'tipping point,' where one aesthetic is effectively replaced by another. ...As in, 'we're not in Kansas anymore.' They called the Cubists 'ugly,' and the Impressionists before that.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2020
  12. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    While much more common in the late Roman period, there are unofficial, solid (not fourree) denarii from all periods. Some are more base than the real thing; some are just as fine.
    Antoninus Pius (the dark patches are encrustations on top of the surface)
    rc2182fd3429.jpg

    Faustina I
    rc2205fd3432.jpg

    Commodus
    rc2610bb1822.jpg

    Septimius Severus
    re3390bb1737.jpg

    Julia Domna
    re6380bb02402.jpg

    Caracalla
    re6665fd3447.jpg

    Usually we think of plated coins as being poor style. Some are not at all bad and a few are hard to separate from the official. However, just as with the solid group, the more familiar you are with the official coins, the more obvious it is that these are 'wrong'.
    Sabina
    rc2020bb0398.jpg

    Septimius Severus
    re3420bb0337.jpg


    Domna
    re6370bb1154.jpg

    Caracalla
    re6705fd3448.jpg
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2020
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  13. SeptimusT

    SeptimusT Well-Known Member

    When it comes to late Roman imitations, I find it quite difficult to draw the line between official and 'barbarous' with some of them! Just focusing on the truly abstract, a couple favorites include:

    sri lanka.png
    Sri Lanka Roman Imitation
    Obverse
    : Emperor’s diademed bust right, traces of garbled inscription around
    Reverse: Imitation of Gloria Exercitus two soldiers and standard reverse type
    Struck 5th century AD, 14mm, 1.35g; Mitchiner ACW #5165ff

    thessalonica.png
    Eastern Europe, Celtic Imitation of Roman Thessalonica
    Obverse
    : Heads of Janus
    Reverse: Two centaurs rearing in opposite directions, garbled Greek legend beneath
    Struck 1st century BC, 16mm, 1.81g; SNG ANS 804-5
     
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  14. Cucumbor

    Cucumbor Well-Known Member

    Some very interesting and funny imitations. That's the kind of sub-set I might consider putting together, but Hey ! I have so many already !

    My only one

    [​IMG]

    Q
     
  15. Edessa

    Edessa Well-Known Member

    Not sure if this qualifies as "elegant", but it's certainly abstract. I call it "Celtic Potato Head". Æ19x17, 2.26g.

    zbc.jpg
     
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