Weight range for Claudius Denarius?

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Aetius, Oct 11, 2020.

  1. Aetius

    Aetius Active Member

    My recent purchase from CNG is on the low end of the scale at 3.15g. I did research auction archive examples around this weight but its getting into fourree range, could it be plated?

    [​IMG]
    Claudius. AD 41-54. AR Denarius (20mm, 3.15 g, 6h). Rome mint. Struck AD 46-47. Laureate head right / DE BRITANN on architrave of triumphal arch surmounted by equestrian statue left between two trophies. RIC I 34; von Kaenel Type 27; RSC 18. Toned, contact marks, shallow scratches, edge marks, slight bend in flan. Near VF.


    From the Todd Hansen Collection. Ex Dix Noonan Webb 146 (25 April 2018), lot 20; G. R. Arnold Collection (Glendining, 17 June 1969), lot 187.
     
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  3. Cucumbor

    Cucumbor Well-Known Member

    From what we see of the surface, it might very well be plated (lower part of Claudius' neck, edge at 9 O' clock)

    Q
     
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  4. Ryro

    Ryro Trying to remove supporter status

    They often were. Here's my example:
    20200302_131759_IMG_4431.JPG
    Claudius
    Plated Wreath Denarius. 46-47 AD. Lugdunum mint. Obv: TI CLAVD CAESAR AVG P M TR P VI IMP XI legend with laureate bust righ. Rev: S P Q R / P P / OB C S in three lines within wreath. RIC 41; BMC 45; RSC 87; Sear 1848.2.03 grams.Property of a Middlesex gentleman.[No Reserve]
    Very fine; large fragment. Ex Timeline
     
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  5. Herodotus

    Herodotus Well-Known Member

    The weight does seem to be on the lower end of the avg. weight for denarii of this type, yet still within what I would understand to be an acceptable range.

    W/out a chisel, and making your own 'test-cut' (which I'm fairly positive you're loathe to do), it's hard to know for sure.

    It looks OK to me, but I'm not confident to make a definitive decision either way.

    Here's a larger (clickable) picture of your coin showing more detail:
    [​IMG]
     
  6. derkerlegand

    derkerlegand Well-Known Member

    a few rather deep gouges/bumps, yet i see no base metal indicated
     
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  7. Aetius

    Aetius Active Member

    Yes there is no sign of base metal from the areas of damage
     
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  8. Cucumbor

    Cucumbor Well-Known Member

    Good to know, maybe it's in the low range due to the gouge removing some metal, then

    Q
     
  9. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    My guess is plated. Most of this type sold seem to be. Is that a tight seam on the obverse from the V of CLAVD to the S of CAESAR then running through letters across the top ending at the chip under VI? Fourrees of this period can have thick silver and quite a bit of wear before the show core. Herodotus is right about cutting it to be sure. I'd rather live in doubt.
     
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  10. Aetius

    Aetius Active Member

    That's what I initially thought with a light flan to begin with but its hard to say for certain.
     
  11. Aetius

    Aetius Active Member

    It could be but in hand x10 it looks more like scratches. The weight and type lean towards plated however the areas of damage at the neck and 8 o'clock do not appear to expose a base metal core (to me at least it looks toned silver, the whole coin is nicely toned). I agree there is no way to be certain without cutting.

    I do like the coin but ill maybe upgrade it down the road. With its provenance i'll probably get back what I paid (which is less than it sold for in 2018).
     
  12. akeady

    akeady Well-Known Member

    I think you got a pretty good deal on it, as I saw its DNW price.

    If you can measure its specific gravity accurately, it may determine whether or not it's plated.

    ATB,
    Aidan.
     
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  13. kevin McGonigal

    kevin McGonigal Well-Known Member

    I would pay the price of a fourree and accept it at that. Full freight and I'd want certification. From what i can see of the enlarged image there are what appear to me to be base metal patches.
     
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  14. Ryro

    Ryro Trying to remove supporter status

    David Sears would be worth it for such a coin.
     
  15. scarborough

    scarborough Well-Known Member

    As @akeady mentioned, determining whether the coin is silver by a specific gravity test is a good idea.
    There are lots of examples showing how its done on the web. You'll only need some thread or fishing line, a scale and a reference coin, preferably large like a crown.
    I did it myself to prove that a Caligula drachm was false, and got a refund. (The dealer then re-auctioned it without the new information, but that's another story.)
    If you have suspicions about the coin being a fouree then I recommend doing the test.
     
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