**********WARNING!!!********** This may be offensive to the numismatically squeemish. Ok folks, I see enough threads about cleaning coins. How to do it, how not to do it, should I do it. Well, for most the answer is a resounding just LEAVE THEM AS THEY ARE. So, I thought a bit more about this and what I see "walk in" at the coin shop. For those that DON'T work in a coin shop it would scare you at times. Fairly recent purchases by my boss were a complete set of Standing Liberty Quarters (including the 1916 AND 1918/17S and a complete set of Indian Cents. I hate to say but well over 50% of these coins had taken a harsh cleaning in the past including ALL of the key dates. The keys were sent to ANACS for grading and authentication. The few "better" coins that escaped cleaning were sent to NGC. This information in mind it's time for the clembo version of let's pretend. Ready? Here's a few scans. Let's pretend the Lincoln is a 1909S-VDB and the Mercury is 1916-D. http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x275/clembo1872/scan0001-20.jpg http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x275/clembo1872/scan0002-24.jpg Hmmm.... Decent examples for the rarity and look original. The SVDB is a bit spotty and the 16-D DOES have a sizeable rim ding. Still nice coins and worth some bucks. NOW (once again pretending) these are key dates let's assume these were inherited and a total novice or absolute non-collector wants to sell them. I have seen coins brought in looking like this. http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x275/clembo1872/scan0003-21.jpg http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x275/clembo1872/scan0004-16.jpg EGADS!!! Then you might hear "I've been working on cleaning these up for a few days now". GASP!!! Yes, we'll buy them at maybe 20% bid because someone will want a cheap "hole filler". Bottom line here is it REALLY does happen folks and it's a great reason to steer away from cleaning coins. If you're going to do it read up. Practice on "worthless" coins but just try to stay away from it. I sacrificed two commons to make a point here. The scans were taken within minutes of one another. First came the originals. Then I dipped them in silver jewelry cleaner. Had to take a Qtip to the Lincoln and is that nasty or what? The dime isn't so bad. Still worth melt - I'll spend the Lincoln. I trashed two coins for the benefit of my friends at Coin Talk. When you get over your horror pass it along to someone that needs to know this. clembo
[quote LEAVE THEM AS THEY ARE. clembo[/quote] yes!!!, but some stubborn people won't listen. At 20% bid they have lost almost all the value of a coin that they cleaned.
From your thread, and the responses to mine, I've realized that there isn't any cleaning in my future. I've vinegar soaked a few circulated 1990's pennies, but that'll be it for me. No more cleaning! I'm a bit of a numismatic noob, and I'm glad I'm not going to learn the hard way. Thank you to all!
Hi Clembo, thx for the explaination with the pics... helps.. its like a "Why not to clean for dummies" and i am one of them ... simple and to the point and i liked the post thx for sharing btw nice coins... wish i could have had them.. One more thing, maybe i am wrong but i have seen the natural colour/tone return to the coins, though it does take some years. This happens if the coins with same metal are kept together in a lock bag or something.. just my 2c
Clembo, If a coin has verdigiris it should be cleaned but by people who know how to do it. not cleaning a coin is a bad idea if the coin will be worse off. It is very important to understand that not all cleaning/conservation is bad
Thanks clembo. The pictures are a great help and I have sworn off cleaning. Back in my cleaning days (Two days ago) I bought cleaning fluid from a reputable dealer in Phoenix. The lady that suggested the product sat at a desk on the sales floor. She said she cleaned copper and nickel coins all day with the same product. Why would a dealer do this? Were they just cleaning worthless coins to sell to an unsuspecting public?
That is a great post. Thanks for taking the time and patience to express to a wannabee who wants to become a knowedgeable coin/paper collector. I have done what you showed and have found that copper is uncleanable and shows up the most gentlest cleaning. People who try to tone coins IMO are in the same category. So, so many cents are ruined/destroyed be heartless people who don't appreciate the way coins look. I've found out through CT that the dirtiest, fingerprinted(on purpose) coin has value. THANKS AGAIN.
Clembo, I agree with you, leave the coins alone. :bow: I have tried using jewelry on some common coins I had as well as other methods to help me learn about what cleaned coins might look like, thanks for the post, my coins turned out like yours.
I will sometimes dip a heavily toned coin (read ugly shades of brown black) to bring out some of the coin's natural beauty, but I don't ever dip copper, and I don't do weird things to my coins like take wire brushes or strange chemical reactions like baking soda baths or soaks in vinegar (unless your a dateless buffalo), or immersion in mercury. There is a difference I think.
absolutely. i dont have potatoes to waste either there was this large morgan that i wanted in red but
If this still does not convince some people, or they think their cleaning methods are undetectable; I have a suggestion. Clean a coin (any coin) with your secret method. Now send it to PCGS or NGC and see if you can fool the experts.
NGC and PCGS grade cleaned coins all day. there is a difference between cleaned and harshly cleaned coins GD come back i am beginning to type your posts
The problem with talking about cleaning is that the word "cleaning" is not well quantified. Those with experience understand the different levels from undetectable to wire brushed and Hydrochloric acid. You can clean your baby and you can clean your waste drain, just be aware of the consequences of using the wrong cleaner substance. Jim
I read your thread Dave and I believe Coin Care is similar to Blue Ribbon. You will see it on dealers shelves because they do use it. Acetone and dips are also used in many shops. I harshly cleaned these coins to make a point and it seems to have been taken. Cleaning coins can be a dangerous thing. When a budding new collector asks me about cleaning products I tell them not to clean EVEN THOUGH we have Blue Ribbon on the shelf at work. They need to learn more about the hobby and beauty of a natural coin before even considering cleaning IMHO. Read on. Spock makes an excellent point here. Sometimes it is in the best interest of the coin to resort to cleaning. Verdigris and PVC residue must be removed if possible. If not the coin will get worse over time. PVC is pretty easy in most cases. Verdigris can be very tough. Certainly don't want to dip copper. On silver many, including dealers, do exactly what BQ has posted. I do it at work for the boss. For my personal stuff I leave it as it is. I have a growing "collection" of near black coins that I have "rescued" at work. Some are BU - I just happen to like the character. A matter of individual tastes. I'm afraid it does happen on a very regular basis and I'm sure they are aware of it. A quick dip before sending a Morgan Dollar to PCGS or NGC happens a lot. I was always pretty much a "purist" about cleaning coins and still rarely touch any of my own. It's different I'm afraid to dealers seeing thousands of coins. It's odd that a coworker and I have become fairly adept at it - through practice. Neither of us is crazy about it. My "best", if you can call it that, was an Isabella quarter. Came in real black and the boss wanted it slabbed. I got the honors. I worked it slowly and methodically over a few days. Got it to a "natural" grey. The boss wanted me to work it more and I told him no. It was done. It came back an AU58 with no problems mentioned from ANACS. Was I proud that I had slipped one by ANACS? No. I was happy that I didn't destroy the coin. Other coins my coworker and I will just say no period. Has no hope and we won't touch it. Bottom line remains the same to me folks. If you don't have to attempt cleaning a coin then just leave it be.
I'm afraid it does happen on a very regular basis and I'm sure they are aware of it. A quick dip before sending a Morgan Dollar to PCGS or NGC happens a lot. I was always pretty much a "purist" about cleaning coins and still rarely touch any of my own. It's different I'm afraid to dealers seeing thousands of coins. It's odd that a coworker and I have become fairly adept at it - through practice. Neither of us is crazy about it. My "best", if you can call it that, was an Isabella quarter. Came in real black and the boss wanted it slabbed. I got the honors. I worked it slowly and methodically over a few days. Got it to a "natural" grey. The boss wanted me to work it more and I told him no. It was done. It came back an AU58 with no problems mentioned from ANACS. Was I proud that I had slipped one by ANACS? No. I was happy that I didn't destroy the coin. Other coins my coworker and I will just say no period. Has no hope and we won't touch it. Sounds to me like you were not exactly proud of your accomplishment. I have experimented with success on common date coins. I know it happens more than we'd like to think, like it or not. I guess I would rather have a cleaned coin over a counterfeit any day. I would however, rather not deal with either.
Exactly Quartertapper. I'll clean a coin at work because it's not mine and I get paid to work there. Even then, as I stated, there are times I'll just say no. The vast majority of my collection is raw and uncleaned. Of the cleaned coins I do have most I bought knowing they were cleaned. Collectors, especially new collectors, should stay far away from cleaning. If, for some reason, it is necessary consult with someone that has a clue on how to do it as safely and effectively as possible.
I can remember, as recently as 2003 I would balk at even the notion of dipping, but as I learned more, and became more involved in the research side of the hobby I began to understand certain things that I had taken for granted for years and years.
Thank you clembo. Your reply cleared everything up for me. I have been hoarding old US coins since the 50's. It is only in the last few weeks that I have started organizing everything. I had researched proper ways to store coins correctly and literally every article said do not clean!! I was delighted to find a dealer that told me that cleaning was OK as long as I used their product and then only nickel and copper. Fortunately, I only cleaned about 20 coins before joining CT and asking one more time. I have placed well over 2000 coins in 2X2’s. I would have cleaned everyone of them thinking it was the correct thing to do. You and everyone else on CT did indeed do me a great favor.
